[ SECRET POST #2116 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2116 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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06.
[Deacon Frost, Blade]


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07.
[Legend of Korra]


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09.
[Luke Wilson]


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11.
[Transformers: Shattered Glass]


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13.
[marvel comics]


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14.
[Pan's Labyrinth]


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16.
[The Walking Dead]


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17.
[Jackass]


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19.
[Avengers]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 020 secrets from Secret Submission Post #302.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

tbh, as a YA fan, I.. don't know how I feel about the new series coming out. I really, really don't like how the authors talk about Billy (they go on about how ~privileged~ he is compared to Teddy because hey, he still has his parents, let's just ignore everything he went through in Children's Crusade completely) and feel like they're going to pull a lot of shit with his character that has the potential to seriously ruin him (they're talking about making him fuck up "Hank Pym style"* and subsequently "realize" how good he has it or some shit**).

I don't like how they talk about Teddy "going behind Billy's back" to keep doing superhero stuff. I REALLY don't like where it looks like they're taking their relationship, because they're pretty much the #1 gay couple in comics right now - and definitely #1 for young adult and kid comics - and it sounds like they're basically going to make it a relationship based in keeping secrets from each other and such bullshit, and I do not like that. What I loved about YA in its first run was how Billy and Teddy's relationship was never part of the drama - it was never used as plot or drama fodder. It doesn't look like the new team will keep to that trend.

I really don't like that Tommy won't be there. As others said, he was ALL ABOUT still being a team. But if they make his absence part of the plot and he comes back, I'll be okay with that. Still, I hate it, especially since he's my girlfriend's favorite.

I'm not sure how I feel about Miss America yet. On one hand, I get that Eli is gone and they wanted a new "America-themed" character, but I don't like that they're having her come in to apparently lead the team(?) (because, y'know, team leader must always be ridiculously patriotic-themed) when she's the newb (to the team, I mean). I would have liked to see Kate come back and take over the team leader position, but the creative team here seems like they're kind of discounting Kate because she doesn't have powers. Crappy. I like that Miss America is not white and that she seems pretty badass.

Noh Varr... I'm gonna have to see before I even really consider liking. In the interview he sounded so completely unlikeable that I don't know why they'd put him in there.

Above all, I don't like that the team is making the "Young Avengers" series.. not only about the Young Avengers. They said it'd be a few issues of just them, and then they're gonna go look at other young superheroes and teams, like the Runaways, etc., and... if you're doing a series on ALL teen/young superheroes, don't call it Young Avengers. Because people are gonna go in expecting, y'know, the Young Avengers, and if you don't plan on delivering, just stop.

(I also don't like that Kid Loki apparently manipulates Miss America - and everybody else - into being in the Young Avengers, or being in the team again. I think that's really... shitty. I don't like it as a plot device at all.)

* Comparing Hank Pym to anyone should be considered an insult of the highest order. I mean, seriously.

** I HATE THIS. Billy has been through some shit. Yes, he still has a home and parents. His family is even rather well-off! THAT DOESN'T MEAN HE HASN'T BEEN THROUGH SHIT. Like a huge identity crisis, like accidentally hurting a bunch of people and having literally everyone decide you're better off locked in a closet for the rest of your life. Having even the people you love and who love you and your biggest idols in your whole life decide you're too dangerous to be around. Finding out your real mother is the woman responsible for decimating the mutant population. And so on.

It can be argued that Billy hasn't been through as much as Teddy, and definitely that the tragedy Teddy went through should have been dealt with more and better, but that doesn't invalidate what happened to Billy. Last time I checked, bad shit happening to people wasn't a contest and there wasn't a winner, and no one has to get PUNISHED for going through depression as a result of seriously awful shit happening and not.. what, snapping out of it because, "Hey, I might have had all this terrible shit happen to me but my parents are still around"? That's bullshit. And that's essentially what the new YA team seems to be saying, along with some idiots on Tumblr. And it kind of enrages me, as someone who has suffered depression and been told - probably by the same kinds of people who are making this comic and going on tumblr talking about how what Billy went through doesn't matter - that I should just snap out of it because hey, at least I have a computer, and food, so I have no reason to be depressed. Fuck that.

OH GOD DO I HAVE ENOUGH FEELINGS.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree that Billy has been through some major shit, but I don't think that the new team thing that Billy needs to be punished specifically for having depression--I think they just want to put him in a situation where he gains some perspective about past actions. Having depression doesn't give you a pass on doing things that hurt other people, and Billy has made some major mistakes, and those mistakes got two of his teammates killed. Those mistakes weren't the direct results of his depression, either--they were the result of him going out and, against the advice of almost everyone, trying to "fix" things. I think it was well-intentioned and that Billy really just wants to help people, but he needs to learn to take a minute and think through his actions a bit. I think his depression at the end of Children's Crusade was maybe a start to that, but it would be nice if he continued to grow in that direction and realize that just because he has the power to do what he wants most of the time doesn't mean that he should--even when his intentions are good.

I can understand why you're upset because I've struggled with depression for a really long time, and people can and will be total and complete shits about it. It sucks that people on Tumblr have been saying shitty things about depression in general, and I'm sorry you've had to read it. But I really don't think the team are saying that Billy still has parents and therefore Billy shouldn't be depressed. I think that comment was mostly trying to show that they think Billy needs to stop and think beyond himself a bit more often, and consider that maybe he's not the only one with issues. I love Billy, but as a whole, his teammates--and especially Teddy--do let him get away with being a bit too inward-focused. That doesn't invalidate what he's been through or his depression, or mean that he can't be hurting just because other people are, too.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I think a lot of the narrative about it has focused on basically punishing Billy for being upset over things that, by and large, were not his fault. Billy didn't get his teammates killed - while they died as a result of his initial actions (choosing to try to fix things himself), he didn't kill them, he couldn't have predicted their deaths, and they came with him willingly. Doom killed Cassie, and Iron Lad The Eternally Irritating destroyed Vision.

Admittedly, yes, Billy has some growing up to do, like most people. He's what, 16 when the series starts? A lot of being sixteen is being kind of selfish (but I wouldn't even really label Billy that, either - he can be a little selfish, but he's not a selfish person, if you get my meaning). But I don't think it's like they paint it, that it's terrible that he doesn't realize that he's somehow (I don't know how at all, frankly) ~better off~ than everybody else and stop being upset about it and idk, defer to them all the time or something? Stop doing anything? Stop being depressed? I don't know what people want him to do here.

But he is being narratively punished -- oh, let's make sure he ~remembers what he's got~ because clearly having an identity crisis, being treated like you're radioactive by most everyone you love and have ever looked up to, trying desperately to figure out your life, being painted with the same brush as your mother just for existing, having/experiencing depression etc., are not problems at all because he still has parents and someone else doesn't. And that is really shitty and it's basically the creators playing Tragedy Olympics - the plot must be driven by Billy fucking up because clearly not enough awful shit has happened to him.

Not to mention, Billy fucking up or doing something somehow wrong or that he shouldn't do has been the basis of A WHOLE LOT of Young Avengers plots already, so it's getting kind of old.

And I especially think it's wrong because it's not really so much that Billy failed, in the original story, to acknowledge other people's problems so much as the creators did - they had the option to spend more time on the other characters and dealing with the shit they went through, but they chose not to. They don't even especially linger on the emotional effects of what happened to Billy until he falls into a depression at the very end of Children's Crusade. So it feels a little unfair here.

And having it be and be labeled a "Hank Pym style" screwup he's gonna make freaks me out. Because Pym deserved to have bad shit happen to him - he was an abuser and a complete asshole. Billy... isn't. So yeah.

[muccamukk]

I'm not on side with Hank Pym building Ultron, because boy was that a bad idea, but his attack on Janet and his attempt to kill the rest of the Avengers was the result of sever mental health problems.

He was deemed by everybody not entirely responsible for his actions, and paid for them anyway. Saying he deserved to have bad shit happen to him when he was seriously mentally ill at the time is kind of icky, ya know?

[(Anonymous)]

I'm the anon somewhere upthread *waves vaguely* who said I'm both excited and terrified for this. The "terrified" bit? Pretty much because of everything you've said here, re: Billy and Teddy. There's just so much potential for them to be completely and utterly screwed up!

I loved that Billy and Teddy didn't do the whole relationship DRAMA thing that Marvel seems to default to all the time, and I'm worried that that's the direction this new series will take. I have to admit, I've been avoiding interviews about this precisely because the more little bits I hear, the more I freak out about how Billy and Teddy will be handled. I really only read that one interview where it was said that Teddy was sneaking around superheroing behind Billy's back, which - eh, that could be done either really well or really badly, so I've got my fingers crossed. But then it went on to say that Billy'll make a big mistake because of that and that made me just wince in fear. The constant in Billy's/Teddy's lives thus far has been... each other. Even when what they thought they knew about their families gets upended, they're just constantly there for each other, and I hate to think that they might have Billy screw that up somehow.

I don't do tumblr and like I said, I've been avoiding any other interviews, so I've fortunately escaped any commentary on Billy's depression. But what you've said people are saying? That is all so. much. bullshit. You're absolutely right - tragedy isn't a contest! Billy's been through plenty of shit, and invalidating his depression (especially with such a specious argument!) makes me pretty damn furious. I'm just - I have too many feelings about this, so I won't get into it, but... I agree with you. Just thought you should know. =P

[Also. Billy screwing up HANK PYM STYLE? WHAT IS THIS NONSENSE OH GOD.]

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Thank you!

I know how you feel, seriously. I'm really upset about a lot of what they're doing with the new series and especially what they're doing to Billy. You're right to stay away from the speculations and the interviews. :\

[(Anonymous)]

As much as I love them, I wouldn't mind a bit of drama in the Billy/Teddy relationship, because a perfect couple that never fights is boring as hell. At least there's no talk of cheating or breaking up or fridging.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I agree. I adore Billy and Teddy, but a bit of friction won't kill them. Also, as much as I did love that they had some cute moments and finally got an in-canon kiss in CC, the way they handled the proposal just seemed so bizarre, and almost like it was some weird attempt at appeasing fans for basically decimating the team.

[(Anonymous)]

I thought the proposal was a bit much too. They're teenagers FFS

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Ehh. I don't like it, not just because I don't trust them to do it without having one of them cheat or having them break up, but also because it's just SO nice to see a gay couple whose relationship isn't all shitty drama and crap. Hell, it's nice to see a couple, period, like that.

I get it might just be me. But as a gay person, it's so nice to see a relationship that's not that far off from mine, and portrayed as just a thing that IS, not something that may be, may not be, has a whole lot of problems, etc.

Also, the way they talk about Billy finding out Teddy's going behind his back - keeping shit from him, lying to him, etc. - being like finding out he's cheating on him gives me no faith whatsoever.

[dazzledfirestar]

Honestly, I won't speak to most of this because YA has never been my thing BUT Kate is playing a sizable role in the new Hawkeye series so that might have something to do with her not being front and center here. I'm not saying it's a good reason, but it might have played a part in the decision making process.

As for your comments on past canon events... thank you for once again living up to the idea that YA fans don't care about the rest of the universe. Bravo.

[(Anonymous)]

Different YA fan stepping in to say that we're not all like that, I swear. I'm actually pretty excited to see that they're branching out with the new book and talking about having them interact with more outside characters. The crossovers that they did with the Runaways during Civil War and Secret Invasion are some of my favorite YA stories, honestly, and I think more interaction with the larger universe is a good thing. I also really like the nods that Gillen is planning to make to past Avenger's story arcs. The fact that kid!Loki is going to be part of the catalyzing force that gets the Young Avengers back together again is kind of awesome, and I love that the first arc is going to be a riff on Ultron.

Although I do have to say that if the guest appearances turn into the clusterfuck of using the YA storyline as a tool to fix/bring back to life random characters that Children's Crusade was, then I will be highly annoyed. But I trust Kieron Gillen to do a good job with them. He's a good writer, he does a good job writing teenagers, and I think he'll do right by them. Also, Kate is pretty awesome in the new Hawkeye.

[dazzledfirestar]

I agree with everything you're saying here. I really do. I think due to Heinberg's schedule, the YA have been left in their own little corner and while that works on some levels because they don't get pulled into direct contact with all the ridiculous events (the tie ins and such, notwithstanding), it also makes them less visible and easier to handwave out.

Children's Crusade was a mess. End of story. The only reason I picked it up is because I love the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver and I wanted them back in a big way. Aside from a few character moments... it was a waste of time and a waste of a chance to really put the YA into the universe proper. :\

I really don't mind YA fans that are just in it for YA. That's cool. Read on! But don't stomp on characters that have nothing to do with your books because you heard a trope. That's all I'm asking.

[muccamukk]

Which lots of us have been reading. But Kate is possibly only in the first arc of Hawkeye (she's not mentioned in solicits after this week's issue). Her character may well be title-less again by the time YA comes out in January.

Lots of YA readers (though not, for example, me) do tend to stick to that title. That's because most of the other titles are continually sucked into incomprehensible and ill-conceived Events. I can't blame a lot of people for not having the time or money for such things.

[dazzledfirestar]

Honestly, if a Hawkeye book makes it past two arcs, I'll be surprised. No matter how good it is. And as I said, it's not a GOOD reason to cut her out of the YA title, but since when does Marvel need a good reason to do anything?

I didn't say there was anything wrong with sticking to the title. My problem comes in when YA fans who do stick to that title speak as experts on characters who have nothing or little to do with YA without so much as checking out a Wiki page. I won't speak as an expert on, say... Guardians of the Galaxy because I've only read a few things here and there. I'm asking others to have that same respect. And from my own experience, many YA-only fans don't do that.

Damn, dazzle. Throw down!

[jazzypom]

I think with YA, the reason why most fans probably aren't involved in the Marvel U, is that the comic itself has been pretty staggered, due to Heinberg's schedule (before he just went, "Toss it" and slunk back to television). It came out in 2005/06, then nothing but the odd specials since (YA: Siege, YA and Runaways, etc), the YA hasn't necessarily had to get involved in the Marvel U- not until The Children of the Last Crusade, and now, being handed over to a new writer and penciller for a monthly. Marvel (rightly so), can't wait on Heinberg anymore, and it's the first time in a while since YA is going to be involved in the Marvel U. So cut us YA fans some slack, it's the first time in a long time since we're allowed to socialise with the rest of the Marvel verse. Give 'em some time to catch up.

With Kate Bishop (not highly powered, but an attractive and wealthy and complicated character), I can see why TPTB like her, hence hooking her up in the Hawkeye book. To be honest, out of all the YA gang, I think Kate Bishop might be the only one as an active character in the next five years or so. Her story is rich, and she can go all ways, and slot in anywhere, no question.

I think the thing with the new YA is, yeah, they have Kid Loki - but he's been popping up everywhere, so I can understand why people might not be waving the flags and bringing out the brass band.

Kate Bishop will be in the new YA, iirc. I can get why, she's like, their patron or something.

Re: Damn, dazzle. Throw down!

[dazzledfirestar]

Marvel should have stopped waiting on Heinberg years ago. They dropped the ball big time there. And personally, Children's Crusade wasn't worth the wait. As for cutting them some slack, that's not really what I have a problem with. It's the assumption of canon without checking it out. The best example I can remember off the top of my head was a fic where Clint showed up and had a doctorate. And when someone mentioned that didn't really fit the character, the author went off about how canon outside of YA didn't matter. That stuck with me. It's an extreme case, but every time I've tried to stick my toe in the YA fandom, something along those lines comes up.

I don't think it's asking too much to check things out before writing fic or running off at the mouth about a character you aren't completely familiar with. Wiki is our friend for this stuff!

As for the rest of it... I do like that Loki's bringing them back together and all that. It's a lovely nod to the original Avengers origins. But there's a good chance I won't be reading the book unless something mind blowing and spectacular comes out of the solicits in the next few months.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

lol, your comment is hilarious. Why should fans of any given title have to necessary Give A Big Fuck about every other title and the entire fucking Marvel universe, again? Please, tell me why I should feel obligated to read every comic ever in order to be a proper and "good" comics fan, so I can laugh at your elitist more-of-a-fan-than-thou bullshit.

I do mostly follow YA. The rest of the MCU tends to be, as someone else described it, a big clusterfuck. It's all interconnected and goes back decades, and frankly, I have neither the time nor inclination to read all that shit. It's hard enough to contextualize the events of the YA specials and all that good shit when everything MCU has to offer is so intrinsically tied into sixty thousand other things and 50+ years of history that it's impossible to decipher half the time.

Also, seriously, I don't give a fuck if YA fans do or don't care about "the rest of the universe." Or what you think of me as a YA fan, for that matter.

Oh, and.. also? Not that it matters in the least, but YA is hardly the only Marvel comics line I follow, so you can take your fandom stereotypes and elitist crap and bite me.

[(Anonymous)]

MCU is an acronym for Marvel Cinematic Universe, not Marvel Comics Universe.

[dazzledfirestar]

You don't have to read anything. I don't care what you read. But when you speak about characters outside the corner you've chosen in a way that indicates you're aware of one trope or event and nothing else, but play it off as you being an expert, it doesn't look good to those who are aware of the canon.

I mean if I as someone uninitiated railed on and on about Kate Bishop being nothing but another tough girl trope or Patriot playing up the angry young black man stereotype, I'd no doubt get rightfully called on my lack of understanding. But I wouldn't do that because I don't know their story.

I'm not saying you have to read everything ever. I'm saying don't shoot your mouth off about characters you aren't familiar with.

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, I don't agree here. I think that the comparison between Billy and Teddy (Billy having a full, live family that totally accepts him while Teddy saw his mother die in front of his eyes and two galactical empires are fighting to take him away) was there to show how much better Billy has it, and how he should always be happy for it. I believe it was there to show that right now, Billy is all Teddy's got. And that's what Billy doesn't seem to realize. Teddy really wants to make Billy happy, but he also tries to keep him safe because Billy is really all he has right now, and Billy just seems to ignore it like WHOA, flinging himself continuously into danger alone and generally not showing even a bit of concern about Teddy's feelings.

I'm actually glad there're going to be some problems in their relationship, because perfect relationships are both boring and unrealistic. It's about time something will happen. And if they can come out stronger and closer because of it, all the better. I don't believe Gillen has any intentions of breaking them up or anything.

I believe Tommy was hinted to come at some point later in the story. Gillen did say that the YA won't come together out of their own choice, but because Loki will manipulate them to work together. It might be that he simply plays no part in Loki's plan ATM, but he will come in later when he hears they're together again or something.

As for Miss America leading the team- it wasn't hinted anywhere, but it might be plausible. I don't think there's anything wrong with that- after all, Cap was the newbie when he came onboard and he turned to a leader pretty quickly. And she has leading experience. And it was said that Kate and Chavez will play off each other, so it might be a struggle for dominance like it was with Eli and Kate.

And what's wrong with the Young Avengers looking for other young heroes? The Avengers roster isn't static, why should the Young Avengers roster be?

[muccamukk]

I like your interpritation of Billy and Teddy. As long as they don't break them up, I wouldn't mind a bit more drama in the relationship. They're teenagers for god's sake.

Cap was only made the team leader of the Avengers because all the other Avengers left the team, so that might not be the best example :D

I'm interested to see what Chavez is about. I liked her in Point One, but haven't read her team book. Possibly someone to slash Kate with too (though I'm still pretty bitter that Cassie's been sacrificed to the alter of Scot Lang's eternal manpain).

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I agree with your first paragraph for the most part (minus the whole "he should be happy with it" because frankly I think after all that Billy's been through, the whole "he should just be happy to have a family and ignore EVERYTHING ELSE EVER" is complete bullshit), but.. not your second really at all. Friction is fine, but they described it as basically Teddy sneaking around behind Billy's back and lying to him, and Billy's finding out being like finding out Teddy's cheating on him, and.. that's just no. That is a HUGE no.

(Also you totally just called my relationship boring and unrealistic. We are not :( lol)

Ugh, I still completely hate the "Loki manipulates everyone to come together" idea. It's so contrived and stupid. Uggggh. Not helpful. Not making me feel better.

Agree on Miss America, but idk how I'll feel about her until I see her. :\ hmm.

It's not that there's anything wrong with them looking for other heroes. It's that the new team said the comic series Young Avengers will be looking AT other young heroes and young hero teams that have nothing to do with and won't have anything to do with the Young Avengers. I don't think you should call it YA if it isn't about them.

And.. yeah, I like my rosters more static than not. I actually really dislike reading comics if the characters I care about aren't on the team anymore (which explains why I have a hard time finding Avengers comics I enjoy). I'll check out the new YA because it has Billy, Teddy and Kate, but if they, say, got rid of Billy or Teddy, or keep Tommy gone, I'll probably be out, too.

[(Anonymous)]

I refuse to believe you have had a meaningful relationship with another human being that has been completely conflict-free.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Oops, I meant to write "I don't think that the comparison between Billy and Teddy was there to show how much better Billy has it, and how he should always be happy for it."

Also, I wouldn't say Teddy going around being a superhero is exactly 'cheating' on Billy. AIt's not like he has to stay at home and do nothing just because Billy does it. And are you telling me you never had any conflict with anyone you know? Really? I find it extremely hard to believe.

Have you read JiM? It's not conrived at all. That's what Kid Loki does.

Well, tough for you, I guess. Comic book teams roster rarely stays the same forever. And who knows? Maybe you'll grow to like and care about Noh-Varr, Miss America and Loki?