[ SECRET POST #2119 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2119 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 85 secrets from Secret Submission Post #303.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I think it has more to do with the reason the character has been genderswapped. If the point is to do a character study - how would things be different if this character was a different gender, how would they be different as a person, would events play out differently and so on - then it's fine and fun and go for it.

If however, the whole point is "I want to ship same Sex Character with Same Sex Character but ewww gays are gross/I don't like slash/being gay is a sin and means you're diseased, so I'll change one of them into an Opposite Sex Character" - then yes. This is a problem.

I also think it's problematic if it's done because I Don't Like Slash But This Is The Only Pairing That Gets Reviews, So I'll Genderflip One Character So I Don't Have To Write Slash But I Will Also Pull In All The Slash Fans.

I'm looking at you, Teen Wolf fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

And if the story is well-written, how would one tell the difference?

[(Anonymous)]

In my experience, people usually reveal their intentions in their A/N.

[(Anonymous)]

I lolled because this is so true. So true.

[(Anonymous)]

Even if not explicitly stated, I find that it's usually pretty easy to tell by the tone the author takes in their notes, and by looking at the other sorts of things they've written. I feel strongly enough about it that I have also been known to go look at their tumblr or twitter or etc to see if they say things that reveal their sentiment towards it. I have seen several writers of Sterek genderswaps, for example, say things on tumblr about how they just 'can't handle slash'/'don't like slash'/'feel uncomfortable writing gay romance' and that's why they wrote girl!Stiles. In those cases, I give the fic a by.

[(Anonymous)]

I would guess that any story where the author changes Merlin's name to Merlynn to make it a female name, is probably not that good.

[(Anonymous)]

yup, this exactly. genderswap is awesome when it's done right and not to get around "the icky gays problem".

[(Anonymous)]

This exactly.

I met this one guy in Card Captor Sakura fandom who would systematically turn Yukito into a woman in his fics, because "well obviously, Touya and Yukito love each other but they can't love each other like a man and a woman because they're both guys".

[(Anonymous)]

D:

D:

D;

[(Anonymous)]

I'm guessing this winner had no problems with the relationship between a teacher and a ten-year-old.

[(Anonymous)]

Pretty much this. Sadly I've known someone whose got the 'being gay is a sin' mindset who both writes slash and is bisexual [technically. She'd never act on it though because ~that's a sin~.]. : /

[sockpants]

Does it usually come across that way?

I love slash, but I wanted to try to expand my writing horizons, so to speak, so I'm working on a story with a character that would be typically slash with one-half gender-swapped. Just to see if I could do it. If it's offensive, though, maybe I'll scrap it.

[(Anonymous)]

That's not really offensive. It's when people do it because 'omg, the gay! That's horribble/unnatural/sinful so I must change one of them's gender to make it alright!' that it's bad.

[rabidsamfan]

It doesn't always offend. And actually, it can be a lot of fun. Try genderflipping one character, and then genderflipping the other one. (And if you really want to mess with people's minds, flip everybody! That's great fun.)

[(Anonymous)]

+1

Or even flip both of them so that they go from being say a male same sex couple to a female same sex couple. Or switch who is male and who is female in a hetero relationship. There's a myriad of ways for it to be fun and interesting without it being offensive.

[(Anonymous)]

I think if you have a pro-equality attitude and that's apparent from your body of work and online dealings, and you're clearly just stretching yourself artistically, then it's not offensive. What always sets off alarm bells for me is if all of the person's fics are genderswapped het or regular het and they've expressed anti-slash/femslash sentiment and it's clear the reason they genderbend people is just because ~oh noes teh gey~

I have several genderbent works that I love that aren't offensive in the least because the writer/artist did it well and because it was an artistic exercise, not just because they couldn't handle treating a same sex relationship with respect.

[cherrycoloured.livejournal.com]

I've actually never seen het Sterek, but I'm not surprised that is exists for reasons you are pointing out since I've seen it in other fandoms. All of the Sterek genderswaps I've read are f/f, so luckily I haven't seen what you are talking about. Is it all girl!Stiles/boy!Derek, or is there girl!Derek/boy!Stiles as well? The latter is actually really intriguing to me...

I agree with your comment, btw. Genderswaps are one of my favorite fic tropes, and it's always really obvious if someone is doing it because they genuinely interested in it or if it's just so they don't write slash.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh I'd be interested in reading the girl/girl swaps. Those aren't offensive at all because clearly they're not about "fixing" the gay.

And yeah pretty much all the offensive ones I've seen were on tumblr or AO3 and it was always girl!Stiles and either to "fix" the gay, or really clearly not actually Stiles at all, but a self insert that just happened to be named Stiles so that people would still read it.

I am actually pretty intrigued by girl!Derek too, especially if Derek's relationship with Alison's aunt was explored as a lesbian relationship, at least in passing/flashbacks.

[(Anonymous)]

This, so much this. Genderswap is one of my favorite things, but it's really obvious when someone's not doing it because they find genderswapping interesting, but because they are just all ZOMG GEHY PEOPLES. When it's like that I just hit the back button.

[(Anonymous)]

I requested girl!Derek/Stiles on the kink meme awhile back and it got a couple of fills! The first is girl!Derek/girl!Stiles and is still a WIP: http://teenwolfkink.livejournal.com/3353.html?thread=2118169#t2118169; second is girl!Derek/Stiles and is here: http://oh-simone.livejournal.com/52737.html

Both are pretty awesome.

[(Anonymous)]

I love genderswaps, too, if done right. Part of the reason I like them so much is that fictional women aren't often allowed to be certain character types, so it's fun to see characters that fit those types as women. I also like seeing women swapped into men, though.

[(Anonymous)]

What about I Like Slash A Lot But I Like Het And Femslash Too So I'll Flip The Gender Of One Or Both Characters To Do Something Different?

Is that problematic?

[(Anonymous)]

No, because then it fits into the first category from my first comment:

"I think it has more to do with the reason the character has been genderswapped. If the point is to do a character study - how would things be different if this character was a different gender, how would they be different as a person, would events play out differently and so on - then it's fine and fun and go for it."

What makes things problematic is when you're doing it to exploit the audience or to "fix" the gay.