[ SECRET POST #2120 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2120 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 069 secrets from Secret Submission Post #303.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - random image ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[kathkin]

I don't have a problem with the idea of a mutant cure on its own terms and personally if I were Rogue I'd have made the same call because that's a truly sucky power to have - plus I like that she didn't seem to have any intention of divorcing herself from the rest of the mutants/mutant culture.

I think the problem is that being a mutant has generally been used as an allegory for being part of a real-world oppressed group - usually queer people - and the existence of a cure either breaks the allegory (because there's no cure for being queer irl) or makes it horribly offensive (potentially insinuating that there should be a cure for being queer irl).

It's the same issue as in S6 of Buffy. Want to use magic as a metaphor for addictive drugs? Okay. Want to use magic as a metaphor for being gay? Okay. But you can't do both because then you are effectively saying being gay is a destruction addiction.

[(Anonymous)]

Never mind the fact that when X-men first debuted it was meant to be a nod towards the civil rights movement so there's that underlying finding a cure can be equated with people just stop being a minority and all your problems will be fixed!

Which is squicky as hell too. This is why most cure plot threads in the X-men don't sit well with me. On an individual case-by-case basis purely focusing on the mutation and fantasy of being a mutant, yes someone like Rogue would find a cure very desirable. As a we must cure you all whether you want to or not and if you don't we will lock you up/kill you/drug you into harmlessness and then apply that to the original civil rights ties and more modern LGBT echoes. Yeah, no.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, it's problematic, but I don't think the cure writers had the allegories in mind when they wrote those.

[kathkin]

Yeah I was going to mention the civil rights movement allegory but the film series generally only uses the queer allegory - which tbh makes the 'mutant cure' thing more icky because the idea of a 'gay cure' does get thrown around from time to time.

Then again I do think that implying that Rogue was in the wrong equally icky because dude it's her body, she can do what she likes with it.

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt

Thiiisssss. I hated it so much when after X3 came out, a bunch of Rogue bashers (usually Bobby/Kitty and Bobby/John fans) called her a weak traitor for taking the cure. Fuck you, if I had her shitty power I'd want the cure too. I'd like to be able to make out with someone without sending them into a coma, thanks

[(Anonymous)]

I never saw the queer allegory in the films, I assumed they were using an oppressed group as allegory, specifically Jews, which was why the very first scene in the first movie took place in a Concentration Camp. And why Magneto had such a problem with mutants being "legislated". And why Xavier's "they were only following orders" comment to Eric in First Class was met with much booing and hissing.

But i guess that's splitting hairs since homosexuals are also an oppressed group.

[(Anonymous)]

X-men seems to mix a lot of its allegory tbh. The line in the second film "have you tried...not being a mutant?" was definitely a reference to homosexuality for instance. But in other films they like using different metaphors. It's all kind of confusing/silly

[(Anonymous)]

But is that quote - "have you tried not being a mutant?" - specific to being gay? I remember Joyce Summers saying that to Buffy in the s3 finale when Buffy finally revealed her sucktastic destiny, back in the dark ages of 1999. "Have you tried not being a slayer?" And being the Slayer was definitely NOT coded as being gay.

[truxillogical]

No, but that was the joke (in Buffy). The Slayer wasn't "code" for anything, but "Have you tried not being gay?" is/was a common enough question, sort of short-hand for "We're not going to disown you, and we still love you, but this makes us uncomfortable, and we think you may just be doing it to upset us." The joke was Joyce taking that line and using it in a completely different context, and that the answer to both questions is the same: "No, this is who I am."

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, I get it better now. :)

I think I got confused because I assumed Joss Whedon had something to do with XM2 and he wrote Becoming I and II. I thought he was recycling the line. Thanks for clarifying!

[kathkin]

In the first film, yeah, I can see that, but in X2 they had a dramatic coming out scene with Bobby and his family, complete with 'have you tried not being a mutant'. And apparently they consulted Ian MacKellan about that scene, so it was obviously intentional.

It is splitting hairs a bit, though, the allegory falls apart in the third film either way.

[(Anonymous)]

I remember that scene with Bobby and his family. It's funny how differently things can be seen. All I remember was when Bobby's brother calling the authorities on Bobby and the others...and it reinforced my notion that being a Mutant was more like being Jewish during WWII.

Yeah. I think the allegory is a little too mixy.

[insolentwitch]

This is why I wish Marvel would actively discourage the use of X-gene as an allegory for real-world groups. It doesn't always fit, and even when it does there are Unfortunate Implications. I don't think the ability to identify with them would be lessened by acknowledging they are simply their own group with their own problems, and not a stand-in for anybody else.

Also, I'm planning on starting Buffy soon. They did what?

[kathkin]

I don't mind them doing the allegory thing provided they keep it as a very loose allegory. Once you get to 'have you tried not being a mutant' you're in direct comparison territory and yeah that's a problem.

Fair warning: Buffy up to S5 is excellent. S6 and S7 get... weird. There's some great episodes post-S5 but there's also some terribad ones.

[(Anonymous)]

Terribad? Like Bad Eggs, I Robot, You Jane? Or Beer Bad? :)

Buffy s6 and s7 were darker than dark but I enjoyed them all the same...except for Andrew Wells.

[kathkin]

Haha I liked Andrew!

I did enjoy S6 and S7 but I do think the overall quality went down - there were some bad episodes in the earlier seasons but generally the over-arching plots were stronger. IMO darker doesn't necessarily mean better.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think the ability to identify with them would be lessened by acknowledging they are simply their own group with their own problems, and not a stand-in for anybody else.

This is an excellent idea.

And I hope I didn't spoil Buffy for you. *bites lip*