fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #220 ]

#1 I love your username.

#2 The Spanish caste system is a bunch of crap. I really don't like classifying Hispanics by it, but for the sake of the 'Is Chad Spanish or Latino' discussing I had to use it. It really depends on how you want to classify someone/yourself. I'm Spanish and that's the end. I don't go around calling myself a 'Criollo', but there is people out there who use this outlook based on 'blood purity' and what not.

#3 There's a diffeference between being 'interested' in a culture and completely 'appropriating' it. I have no issues if someone wants to come over to watch a Mexican soap and eat empanadas with me. I have issues when they completely bastardize my own culture and use it as some kind of fad, pretending that they know more about it than I do/that they are Spanish when they are not.

Just like you I find it damn beautiful when someone has a genuine interest in other cultures, genuine being the keyword here. You can be interested in another culture but pretending you are part of it? Please.

I've never called my friends 'Wapanese' or 'Weaboos', but that is truly what comes to my mind when I see them. Their interest in Japan is purely superficial and not at all about its culture but rather about it 'HOT BISHIES!!!!oneoneoneoe111' and 'Manga/Anime'.

Stop putting words in my mouth. I never said 'being interested in another culture is a crime if you can't trace your roots back to the region', or at least I don't recall writing that especifically. It's not a crime; I'm interested in Asian culture but my reasoning behind it is a bit better than 'OMG I LUV INUYASHA!!!1oneoneone'

Why can't people just be proud of how they are? Why do they feel that they must appropriate another culture to feel better about themselves? I've never understood this about America. It's sad to see all these children confused about their heritage, pretending to be another just to fit in/feel better about themselves.

Appropriation =/= Interest. It's not the same hon.

Honest question, I hope I don't sound rude because I'm really curious about it: do people in Chile really call themselves "Spanish" even after two generations?

I'm asking because here in Argentina, we only use the term "Spanish" as a nationality, not ethnicity. People of Spanish descent who live in Latin America are, well, Latin Americans of Spanish descent. Then again, this has a lot to do with our history with immigration (Argentinians with Italian descent wouldn't dream of calling ourselves "Italian", for example) so the usage might vary in different countries.

I don't remember people calling themselves Spanish during the year I lived in Chile, either... but I know that nine months in Santiago and a clas full of kids my age don't give me the same kind of experience as someone who lives there.

*there: in Chile, not necessarilly in Santiago. ;) That sentence sounds weird.

Actually yeah, the term Spanish as a ethnicity is used more in the US than in Chile. I seldom heard people in Santiago calling themselves 'Spanish', and yes, just like in Argentina 'Spanish' is used as a term for nationality.

Man, I miss Chile. Cultural confusion does not occur in homogeneous countries.

I guess Latin Americans calling themselves "Spanish" feels weird to me because these countries fought so hard, and not too long ago, to stop being Spanish. It's like someone from the USA calling themselves "English".

Cultural confusion does not occur in homogeneous countries.
Ha. Tell me about it. We Argentinians are one very complicated bunch.

Yeah, I know what you mean! I never got that either, but I think being 'Spanish' is more of a term regarding the language than the ethnicity or the nationality. We all speak Spanish so it's okay to call ourselves 'Spanish', even though many of us are, technically, not really Spanish.

Then again in my case is a bit different because my parents are Spanish; they're Spaniards that just happened to move to Chile and had me there XD

Well, at least cultural confusion does not occur as much in homogeneous countries. If you go to Chile and ask someone what they are they will say, 'I'm Chilean', whereas here in America they'll go, 'Well, I'm Irish/German/Scottish/English blah blah blah.' Seriously they could just say 'I'm American'; there's been so much mixage in here I think no one's a 100% something in here.

they're Spaniards that just happened to move to Chile and had me there

Aaaah. See, that's why I asked - I figured it was a difference in the usage like that. Here, we consider anyone born here as simply Argentinian, no matter were their parents are from (again, because of the old immigration issues). For example, my grandparents don't call themselves Italian even though their parents and even their older siblings are, because they were born and grew in Buenos Aires. I didn't know it was different in Chile.

And I guess it's a very personal issue, too, feeling more identified with the place where you were born or the place where your family comes from.

Bastardize your culture? I don't understand why you keep using these terms like culture is something so fragile it needs to be protected from the people who are invading it, "appropriating" it if you will. If you're really so intent on protecting culture from bad outside influence or being swallowed up inappropriately, I'd say you should tackle the side effects of globalization, not 15 year olds interested in anime/manga. =/

But hey, I do appreciate that this response is much more articulate and less offensive. Forgive me for putting words in your mouth, but your other reply didn't sit well with me at all.

Anyway, I didn't want to bring up my own tl;dr, but these "Wapanese" people you're referring to are buying into a facet of the actual Japanese culture - "otaku". Pompous attitudes aside, does it really matter if at one point someone is more interested in boy bands than the Meiji Restoration? Yes, at one point. I say this because I've experienced it first hand - "Wapanese" people for the most part may carry around an air of knowing far more than they actually do (and may be really proud of themselves for knowing stupid words like "kawaii" and "hai"), but stick them in a classroom environment and they shut up and genuinely want to learn about Japan as a country.

To go into more detail, I used to really resent people like you described before I took a shot at a Japanese class at a local uni this past year. In my eyes there wasn't anything more annoying than a dumbass who trivialized culture or who used it to try to be cool. But after getting to know them, and seeing how driven they were in not only understanding the language but getting to know Japanese customs (their sometimes shitty attitudes aside), and this was because of their love of anime/manga? Honestly, if that interest in anime/manga got them that excited and dedicated? I'm not about to judge anyone's "intentions" as pure or impure anymore. It doesn't matter how someone gets interested in a culture, because interest always equates to eagerness to learn down the line.

Everything wasn't roses and daisies though. Admittedly one girl did keep a cheeky attitude, but I think that had more to do with her personality sucking on a whole. Anyway, she was tolerable and easy to get along with sometimes. She did think she was the shit for a good portion of the course, but she eventually screwed up a verb conjugation in front of the class and got a lot nicer after that.

But coincidentally (and to continue tl;dr) my last year of high school I was also approached by a Polish girl who really loved the Korean language, Korean boy bands, and suddenly me because I was Korean. Just looking at her told me she was really into Korean popular culture (which also includes manhwa and animation) as she had the popular perm and typical Asian short bangs haircut, and also the typical Korean style of clothes. Normally someone like that approaching me - saying things like "anyeong hasaeyo" and wanting to talk about Bi and "My Sassy Girl" would have been totally blown off - but my friends from uni had taught me to not judge someone based on "pure or impure" intentions.

So throughout the year I ended up teaching that girl how to read and write the Korean language and gradually her interest branched out to other aspects of the Korean culture - history, traditional dress, social custom, etc. Yeah, at first she was really snobby about knowing things like, "Wow that's really cute!" or "Oh my gosh!" But people get like that about so much shit - calculus or physics or whatever, acting like they know everything when they only know basic things like related rates or flux capacitors.

And basically that's why I even bothered to reply to your comment. Take from it what you will, but in the end I don't think we'll be able to agree.

I'll reveal myself because I owe you that. Your replies have been acticulated and intelligent, and I've thank you for that. Though I cannot deny that it amuses me that you dedicated an entire entry of your journal to my opinion on this, but I also thank you for that. At least I make for nice discussion.

It's true, I don't think we'll be able to agree. I understand very well what you mean by people having a 'genuine' interest in a culture. I take Español 4 where I was a teacher aid and stayed because I was in dire need of refreshment for my own language. I, like you, taught some individuals whose interest was genuine and not at all pompous, but I'd gotten the other kind too--- WASPs who wanted to know if I ate chili in Chile and if we had tacos. Like I said I don't mind 'aculturization' and 'interest', but I mind 'appropriation' and 'blatant ignorance'.

I sometimes wonder if there 'Otakus' know what that means for Japanese people to be an 'Otaku'--- basement dwellers sickly obsessed over something. Most Japanese would consider it undesirable to be described as an "otaku", and even consider it to be an insult.

All I am against is these ignorant people who really don't know the culture/country but proclaim to the be 'l33t h4axx0r' at it and that they 'might as well been born there'. It just rubs me the wrong way, especially since I was forced, yes FORCED, to become as American as possible so I won't stick out like a sore thumb. It's just not me, and it's not them either to treat themselves as 'Japanese/Spanish/Whatever' because THEY ARE NOT. Yes, they can enjoy the culture and be interested in it, but can never call themselves 'Japanese' 'Spanish', whatever because THEY ARE NOT.

The secret was originally made because my friends were making me feel like a 'Weeaboo' of my own culture, but I guess the secret also uncovered all the dirt on me. Funny how in your journal you called me a Weeaboo, and also nice to know that, for a community that is about safely revealing secrets, one has to reveal him/herself anyways to state his/her point.

I would love to have your opinion on this issue, but I can't, experience won't let me. Maybe down the road something/someone will show me otherwise--- maybe people will get a hard look at themselves and say, 'Woah, I can enjoy a culture without appropriating it/acting like I know it all/acting like a complete jackass and embarrassing myself in front of those who are part of it/are [insert nationality here]!'

I would love that so much. =D

[ SECRET POST #220 ]

Re: Maker of #4, Spanish Culture & Mixage 101 (tl;dr Ahead)

Re: Maker of #4, Spanish Culture & Mixage 101 (tl;dr Ahead)

Re: Maker of #4, Spanish Culture & Mixage 101 (tl;dr Ahead)

Re: Maker of #4, Spanish Culture & Mixage 101 (tl;dr Ahead)

Re: Maker of #4, Spanish Culture & Mixage 101 (tl;dr Ahead)

Re: Maker of #4, Spanish Culture & Mixage 101 (tl;dr Ahead)

Re: Maker of #4, Spanish Culture & Mixage 101 (tl;dr Ahead)

Re: Maker of #4, Spanish Culture & Mixage 101 (tl;dr Ahead)

tl;dr Ahead