[ SECRET POST #2148 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2148 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 080 secrets from Secret Submission Post #307.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 3 4 - doing a bit of troll-weeding ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

oh you're one of those "I'm an ally, give me a cookie!" people

an ally's job is to create more safe spaces and opportunities for minorities, not to tell them what they can and can't do or say or use to cope with their circumstances. hth

[ill_omened]

No, that wouldn't be a fair summary of me I don't think.

An 'allies' job is to argue for, and spread the ideas they believe in be it through public persuasion, personal support, legislation, or any other myriad avenues available to them.

Homophobia, sexism, etc aren't wrong because they personally affect you, and that sucks. They're inherently wrong, and it's the duty of every right thinking person to oppose them and help those affected.

Praise has nothing to do with it.

[(Anonymous)]

ok thank you for explaining the minimum standards for being a decent human being to me, I guess?

That doesn't make what I just said any less true. Allies don't get to tell minorities they're doing it wrong. Stop it.

[ill_omened]

When they're actually doing it wrong they get to though.

I mean you are treading down a problematic path here like my comment to the other anon highlighted.

[(Anonymous)]

No they fucking don't.

An "ally" telling a minority what to do, even if it's "for the best" is still fucking oppressive and silencing and it's bullshit. You don't get a free pass on talking over minorities because YOU think it's ~damaging to the cause~ when you have NEVER been affected by what they experience every single goddamn day of their lives. It's patronizing, it's annoying and worst of all it's hypocritical as fuck.

If someone is really being a piece of shit and unloading their internalized -isms all over everyone, LET THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTUALLY AFFECTED BY IT SPEAK UP FOR THEMSELVES. WE DON'T NEED YOU TO FUCKING DECIDE FOR US.

Sit down and shut the fuck up. It won't kill you. You can deal with not being the center of attention for a while.

[ill_omened]

You are being ridiculous.

I've been on both sides of this, so don't preach to me with your bullshit lines in the sand us vs them mentality.

However, much you may think this to be the case, you're wrong.

If someone wants to call a person out for saying it's wrong to say faggot for example - I don't give a shit if they're straight or not. They're speaking sense, and they have the right to tell the gay person claiming it's okay that they're wrong.

If that's oppressive and silencing then stick a red arm band on me and put me in some hugo boss.

[(Anonymous)]

oh you have every right to call someone out for it-just don't be surprised when a gay man calling himself a faggot tells you to shut the fuck up because he has a fucking right to decide for himself how to use the words that have oppressed him and he doesn't need an "ally" to try to tell him how to be a ~good gay person~. Don't be surprised when a sexually liberated woman calls herself a slut because she is happy with that label and proud of it. Don't be surprised when a black person calls themselves "the n-word" because they find it empowering and liberating to reclaim something that has been used to put them down for centuries.

It is not about you and your feelings and by trying to tell minorities how they SHOULD be acting you ARE making it about you and you ARE fucking silencing and oppressing us. Let us decide for OURSELVES what to do.

An ally's role is not to lecture minorities about what you THINK they should do, it is to support them and let them speak for themselves.

[ill_omened]

Ah yes, the perennial I choose my choice therefore it's empowering.

The complete retreat into subjectivity and freedom from any value judgement, by anyone not you.

Well no man is an island, and if another non-straight man thinks it's okay to tell all his straight friends to use faggot and people are just being babies if they disagree (personal example) then I would be perfectly happy to have an ally come in and tell him that's not acceptable - because shockingly, that isn't acceptable, and his actions don't just affect himself.

Which brings me back to my earlier analogy. A man telling a pro-life woman that she is wrong, is that oppressing and silencing? To obvious answer seems to highlight the self evident flaw in the argument you;re making here.

p.s. what is with the way all you people type in all caps and italics. It legitimately makes you come off as a nutter.

[(Anonymous)]

So a man telling a pro-life woman she has the right to choose, AS LONG AS SHE MAKES THE CHOICE NOT TO BE PRO-LIFE, is totally cool?

I think you've confused the meaning of 'choice' there. Choice means letting someone pick between, you know, choices. Not "Your only option is to pick A or B, but you can't pick A"

[ill_omened]

To clarify I guess.

A man telling a woman supporting pro-life legislation, as part of her overall pro-life beliefs that she is wrong.

Yes [ ]

No [ ]

[(Anonymous)]

He should sit the fuck down and let other women handle it and SUPPORT THEM, not make it all about him being the big strong savior man enlightening the poor childish wimmenz. It's not his fucking place. Why is this so goddamn hard for you to understand.

[ill_omened]

He's not making it all about him, he's making it about the ideas espoused, not the person espousing them.

I mean there's very little actually substance to your responses here bar vague 'support (which would entail what precisely?) but never try to enlighten someone because that's like bad and oppression man'.

I find the way you react to this supposed imposition, and the selfish motives you attribute to be telling of your quite frankly hysterical approach.

I've seen it a lot in the queer sphere, and among other people with various disabilities, but it's tremendously regressive and stunts personal growth.

You should also try to drop the constant approach of me as the patronising ally, because I'm speaking from the perspective of the oppressed group, and seeing other people with the same condition buying into this exact brand of unhelpful bullshit. If someone wants to tell me I'm wrong or what I should do (as they have) I'm perfectly willing to accept that regardless of what background or privilege they're coming from - I'd just tell them why the perspective they're taking is wrong, and if it's not take it on, or at least have it influence my approach to the issue at hand.

[(Anonymous)]

There's a difference between making a choice to be pro-life for yourself and trying to make that choice for other people.

[(Anonymous)]

Ok, I'm done here. It's clear you are a patronizing piece of shit who uses being an ally as an excuse to exercise the same oppressive bullshit racists, homophobes and sexists use to oppress people like me. But at least they're fucking honest about it.

You are no "ally" of mine, or any minority out there.

[ill_omened]

That's really what you're ascribing to me. That I am intentionally an 'ally' (would not use this term to refer to myself, or really take it on as part of my personal identity, but whatever - I have a strong interest in ethics, and to a large extent my interest in these topics is an extension of that) merely to go out of my way to patronise to minorities because fuck them I guess? Like what do you imagine my end goal is here?

And surely I have absolutely no experience what it's like to be a disenfranchised minority. After all certainly sexuality, physical disability, mental disorder, and learning difficulties don't fall into that category.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Except they're really not. Deciding what's 'okay' for a minority to be offended by, and what isn't, is just as condescending and oppressive as the opposite. The difference is that what you're doing is a 'No, no, it's okay. I know what's ~really~ best for you!' way, which treats the minority like children who can't decide for themselves.

And I've also been on both sides of this - including being in the receiving end of the 'You can't say you're okay with people using that word!!!1!' bullshit.

[(Anonymous)]

If anybody is making it us vs. them, it's you. You think "Us" needs to educate "Them" on what's right and wrong even if "They" are the oppressed party that has to deal with this type of stuff on a daily basis whereas "We" are outside observers.