Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2012-12-10 06:48 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2012-12-10 06:48 pm
[ SECRET POST #2169 ]
⌈ Secret Post #2169 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 078 secrets from Secret Submission Post #310.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
I recently befriended a girl who is new here - not a freshman, but new to our church. We hit it off. She's nerdy and we share a few common fandoms and general appreciation for nerd-dom, and she also gets along very well with my other close friends here.
I am discovering more and more that she isn't just conservative; she's an extreme, right-wing, hive-minded fanatic. I am extremely uncomfortable with this. She sometimes puts up political posts on Facebook that I disagree with; when she does, I sometimes comment. Usually, when this happens, if I still end up disagreeing with the person after a civil conversation, we part ways and find other things to bond over. But with her, she takes really extreme reactions to the things I say even to the point of calling me out and attacking me. She literally called me un-American (yes...she said that...>_>) a few minutes ago and said I was "spitting on" members of the military (such as her family) because I disagree with the "wars" we're currently fighting.
She's reminding me a lot of my uncle, who isn't speaking to me right now, and I think it's largely because I disagree with him on many things.
I can't just stop being friends with her because we have many mutual friends. And I don't want to stop being friends with her. I kind of don't want to give up on the idea of helping her see things from a less emotional (and, dare I say, somewhat brainwashed) point of view and step out of her hivemind, and I also like her otherwise (though I'm offended by the remarks she made to me today), and finally, it's really really really against my MO to just stop being friends with people. No matter what happens. The only time I formally broke off a friendship was when a guy I was sort of friends with (he was friends with my brother) made unwanted sexual advances after I repeatedly told him I wasn't interested. This isn't the same sort of thing at all and it feels wrong to just stop being someone's friend.
I might unsubscribe from her on Facebook, like I finally did with my uncle (he basically told me my commentary on his skewed political posts was unwelcome, while he and his right-wing friends gave each other asspats) but that feels so...it feels like a cop-out and like I have to stop being myself and mask my opinion just to be someone's friend. Which just goes against the grain of my personality so much.
I hope this sort of makes sense, it's hard to explain.
Anyone ever been in a situation like this? Anyone have advice? Even just want to rant/commiserate?
(Also, it's finals week, and I recently had drama with my two closest friends here. It's been resolved, but I don't want more drama. Nor do I want a reputation as a drama queen. I don't actually *like* drama, even though sometimes it feels like it follows me everywhere >:C)
ETA: I should clarify that it's not just the conflict, but the fact that I know she thinks this way makes me uncomfortable. I just have a huge problem with this whole sub-culture and its attitudes and gross misinformation, elitism, etc. I don't know what that says about me as a person. I'm almost always able to just accept that someone sees something differently from me and not have it affect our friendship...
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-12-11 03:59 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-12-11 04:13 am (UTC)(link)And then enforce it - never, ever bring politics up around her, steer conversations away from it, if it comes up anyway, say outright, "you know I'd rather not have this argument with you," and then blatantly change the subject.
If you both value the friendship above converting each other, this can work - it's worked for me. You probably won't ever be best bosom buddies, but you'll be able to have fun together and help each other out when you need it, and just by being someone she values who doesn't buy into the echo chamber that she's used to, and being a space where none of that stuff gets reinforced, you'll be showing her another pathway, even if you never talk about that stuff in so many words.
(trying to tell her she's wrong will pull her right back into the echo chamber; 'liberals trying to convert you' is something they have a script for already. 'People who want to look beyond politics' isn't.)
And yeah, unsubscribe to her on Facebook if there's any way at all you can do that and keep being friends.
...if you can't both agree to not talk about it, and stick to it, then what you haven't isn't a friendship anyway, it's two people trying to convert each other. Cut your losses, and stick with that.
no subject
Politics hasn't come up irl - just on Facebook, because we both post about it, and she posts this really extreme stuff (like, you really believe that???) Fortunately, people do not get notified when you unsubscribe from them, so I guess that's what you'll do.
I'm concerned because she took this last discussion so personally. She literally implied that I was insulting her family because of my political opinions. I'm not sure how she's going to act towards me next time we see each other (though it might not be until after winter break, which would be good because then we'd have time to move past it, and talk about other things).
It goes against every fiber of my personality to *not* talk about the things I believe and to have these "off-limits" conversation topics with people. I guess this is when I have to decide to be the bigger person and value my friendship above that, even if it's not fun.
Thanks for your response, anon. :)
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-12-11 04:46 am (UTC)(link)But if you do stick with the friendship over the politics, and it works and you two genuinely learn to like and understand each other a lot, if you're very, very lucky, you two may be in a position later to re-evaluate; if her feelings on politics (or yours) start to get more moderate - you can be there for each other to talk to about it - as long as she knows you as a person who'll listen to her as a friend who needs support, not a political opponent.
no subject
But, yeah, maybe we can just...avoid politics? It just makes me sad, I guess. It lowers my opinion of her as a person. Oh well. She's part of our group of mutual friends so I can still enjoy her company - and like I said before, I don't want to cause drama.
And it's not that she's conservative that bothers me - it's that she's a vitriolic, hive-minded super-conservative. Like, to the point that me disagreeing with the fact that the U.S. is in the middle of a (imo) pointless war was to her equivalent with me spitting on (those words!) all soldiers including her family oh and also I'm now un-American. And she's usually really nice and sweet to me. (My statement, "The U.S. hasn't fought a necessary war since WWII [my opinion]) was met with a splutter and lots of periods, ellipses and exclamation points, like I was being batshit insane. So, yeah...that attitude.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-12-11 04:59 am (UTC)(link)You seem to be getting good advice here. So I'm just gonna say you can still keep her as a friend and hide all posts by her on your wall.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-12-11 04:38 am (UTC)(link)That said, I've been in a similar situation. My ex-boyfriend was a conservative Catholic. I'm a very liberal Jewish-raised atheist. We bonded over mutual interests in engineering and some sci-fi stuff, and the extent of our underlying differences wasn't terribly obvious until a couple of weeks in. It ended up lasting about a year (which was probably about 6 months too long, but I'm terrible at breaking off relationships.) Part of why it didn't come up for a while, and why it didn't break us up immediately, was that neither of us is particularly outspoken about political or religious stuff by nature, so it came up pretty rarely. He was also a fairly rational guy in general, so we could have discussions that were back and forth, and it would generally end up with both of us going "well, that's something I hadn't thought of. I don't agree with you, but I respect where you're coming from." Occasionally I kept quiet when he said things I disagreed with if I didn't feel up to an argument, and I know he did the same around my friends. So keeping things superficial mostly worked. Although that's part of why I knew it was going to end, since not being able to talk about anything serious without it ending in an argument? not the best relationship.
So advice-wise, it depends on which part is more important to you: being friends with this girl, or trying to get her to at least consider other views.
If you're more interested in being friends and avoiding drama stuff, which is completely valid, you can just avoid the subject and concentrate on fandom stuff. Don't necessarily gag yourself, but don't automatically pipe up if she says something that you disagree with if it's offhand and will segue into something else. It can be hard to do that, but it's probably the best way to maintain the friendship at some level.
If you're more interested in improving the debate side of things so you can maybe be friends *and* talk about things you disagree on, it helps to wait until you're one-on-one, and face to face, and then straightforwardly explain your reasoning about things. The one on one is important, that way you can both give your reasons without feeling dogpiled or like you have to play along to keep the group happy. And especially for conversations that can get emotional, face to face interaction is vital to avoid misunderstandings. If she's really not the sort to give considered reasons for things, it might help to recommend some reading from a middle ground source. It's been a while since I've looked into that sort of thing, so I don't know specific authors, but maybe next time you get into an argument on those grounds, find a centrist or even right-wing but less extreme author on that topic, and agree to both read it and discuss it. That way it's something that's "on her side", but might force her to start thinking about it differently, but at 30 degrees instead of 180 degrees. Plus it shows a willingness on your side to consider her views as well, which makes it a lot harder to dismiss you as a "brainwashed liberal" or whatever. However, this does depend on her being willing to meet you partway.
Wow, that got long. Hopefully some of this helps!
no subject
I...actually was in this situation too. I'm a Christian, but I'm protestant/nondenominational and politically very libertarian, and religiously saw just about everything outside of the whole Jesus = Son of God thing differently from this one Catholic ex. He differs (evidently, anyway) from your ex in that he was an ass about it and looked down on my beliefs.
That relationship didn't last very long.
Thanks for your feedback. :) That's a great point about doing stuff like that one-on-one. I know I personally hate the feeling of being dogpiled or it being me v. everyone else in the room, and I wouldn't want to do that to someone else. Maybe if this bothers her enough (which...so far it seems it does) we can have chat about it when school reconvenes in January.
no subject
Even if you have a lot of friends in common, you still don't have to be her friend. You can be around her when she's around, and not seek her out or stay Facebook friends or open conversations with her. That's not drama at all.
no subject
So, I know it's not wrong, but it isn't a route I want to take.
Thanks for your support :)