fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2181 ]

[ SECRET POST #2181 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2181 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 100 secrets from Secret Submission Post #312.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 2 (again) - repeat ], [ 4 - trolls ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Okay.
But do you also feel this way towards comics that are overwhelmingly female?
Because, otherwise, you're a gigantic hypocrite.

I hope they don't, because if so I'd like to submit "harem anime" for their consideration. The gender ratio of something doesn't determine whether it's good or not. :/

Well, this is the trick. A majority female cast IS sexist when it exists to titillate a male audience. However, a majority female cast being used to tell the kind of story that is normally majority male CANNOT be sexist in the context of a misogynist society.

You need to write down the caveats or people say stupid things about "equality" as if pretending that everyone is on equal footing right now.

Cannot be sexist in the sense of INSTITUTIONALIZED SEXISM. Sexist is "prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex". Anti-male sexism isn't common. It is possible.

Ugh it makes me so mad when people think the institutionalized form of discrimination is the only one that's real. It's the most widespread problem, it's what you need to worry about on a global scale -- but on a local, individual level, you can be sexist against men, you can be racist against white people, hell, you can even discriminate against non-disabled people (see "neurotypical"). There is a perfectly good specific term to describe what you're talking about. If you don't like it, make up a new term for all I care. Just don't commandeer the general one.

Anon, I like you.

That's the thing.

It all just sounds like folks just stomping their feet, and throwing a fit, demanding that everything be female. To hell with story, plot, characterization, or context, just make everyone a woman!

It's just not how it works...

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-12-24 01:09 (UTC) - Expand

Ugh, no. Not even close.

Halp.
I can't argue with reasons like this.

da

but your icon is made of such awesome, I support you on principle.

Well, I'm not the OP, and I generally prefer stories with a pretty even gender balance if there's not a reason for the story to be skewed (WWI army soldiers in the field, etc.). But I have to say an all-male cast and an all-female cast aren't really comparable. For years, when studies came out estimating the proportion of male to female characters in movies, TV shows, books, etc. it'd come out 70% male, 80%, or worse. Considering that half the population is female, that's pretty weird.

Now, webcomics, I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers are much more even than traditional media. Actually, traditional media's finally started to get a lot better, too. But historically, stories have often been filled with men except for a token female love interest, even when there was no reason for it. Now, a cast of all female characters can still be incredibly sexist, obviously (some porn, harem anime), but I'm talking about general trends here.

I am just getting sick of this "battle of the sexes" bullshit, in general.
I don't quite understand why a character has to have super special vagina parts for me to relate to them. I relate to male and female characters based on their personalities.
I think it's shallow and limiting. Like if I could only relate to characters with blue hair because I have blue hair, or blue eyes because I have blue eyes.

I don't even really understand why gender comes so strongly into play.
A character's choices, experiences, and personality can be any amount of things, regardless of the genitals they have.

Edited 2012-12-22 22:54 (UTC)

If I could 'Like' a comment, I'd like this one several times over.

*tries to find the like button*

It's not so much about being able to relate to a character. It's just basic diversity. No country in the world is exclusively populated by white males for fuckssakes.

I for one get very happy when I see a female character, or several of them, that AREN'T your token conventionally attractive white young lady love interest with no agency of her own. Because that's the cliché many of them still fall into, and it's bullshit.

It's not so much a "battle of the sexes" as diversity. You can relate to all the male characters you want, but people (both men and women) should also have some good female characters they can relate to.

The problem is that (white, straight) men are treated as the default, with whom anyone should naturally be able to identify. Female characters are generally written off as, "Oh, audience members who aren't women won't be able to identify with them/people who don't like "girly things" or aren't into "women's issues" won't be able to identify with them."

Sure, in theory any character should be identifiable and sympathetic and it shouldn't matter what gender (or race or anything else) they are. But that's simply not how media works right now. There are actual, real life quotes from studio execs who say they won't produce female-led films because there's "no audience" for them. And these attitudes also leech into fandom -- the more poorly-written female characters there are, the more you get young girls saying, "I just like male characters better, what's wrong with that?"

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-12-23 01:22 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-12-23 01:32 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

ex_mek82 - 2012-12-23 03:27 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

gabzillaz - 2012-12-23 04:00 (UTC) - Expand

Different Anon

As I understand it, it's not about whether you can "relate" to a particular character, so much as it is how people like you are represented in the media, which acts as a mirror to the culture it comes from. If women are only ever represented as love interests or one-dimensional caricatures, or not represented at all, that both reflects and shapes how people expect to view women. Similarly, if members of a particular race or religion are only ever depicted using certain stereotypes, that's how people start to think of them, especially if they don't have a lot of members of that group in their personal lives.

It's not an absolute (I'm not saying that people are mindless drones that accept what they see on the television blindly), but hey, if TV advertising didn't work, companies wouldn't spend millions making commercials. It affects expectations on a subconscious level.

+1

(Anonymous) - 2012-12-23 02:51 (UTC) - Expand

OP here, I did mention [logical reason] to be a decent excuse to have an all-male cast, so it applies to an all-female cast as well.

Something like Sailor Moon and MLP have all-female casts because their intended purpose is to tell stories for girls from a girl perspective. Can't see anything wrong with that.

Stories with all-male (or mostly-male) casts however? They are "universal". Because men are seen as "universally relatable". It's a lame double standard that's still very visible in modern fiction. Try telling me that it isn't.

I hate it when a young aspiring creator has the same problems with representation that was common in the 50's.

Oh, DAMN, I was right.

This. When we get to the point where shows with mostly female casts aren't pegged as being only for girls or niche or somehow "revolutionary", then we can stop talking about this. Same with shows that have casts that are ethnically diverse.

Hahahahaha no.

I would hope they don't, and you shouldn't either.

Media in general favors stories about men from male perspectives, because people assume that male is the default and female characters have nothing worthwhile to contribute to a narrative aside from conforming to classic cliches. It's a sexist standard that needs to fucking go.

Men can handle having one or two stories that they are not a part of.

Probably not, because women are AWESOMESAUCE and "who cares about teh menz"? /facepalm

Thanks for bringing up the obligatory straw feminist argument, can't imagine how we could've proceeded without one

Because our society totally fights a war on men, lol.
Try harder next time, little MRA member.

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