[ SECRET POST #2181 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2181 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 100 secrets from Secret Submission Post #312.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 2 (again) - repeat ], [ 4 - trolls ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

08. http://i.imgur.com/gGKWY.jpg

[bored_bitch]

Okay.
But do you also feel this way towards comics that are overwhelmingly female?
Because, otherwise, you're a gigantic hypocrite.

[ex_paola492]

I haven't read HINABN but how will you know if it's a good story if you don't give the comic a chance, though?

[(Anonymous)]

Then I judge you, for judging me, over whats in my creative mind.

Want all female stories? Then start writing.

[(Anonymous)]

I tend to look more at individual characters and how well-rounded they are (I'd rather not have characters that are there just to fulfill the token "Look, we have a female/queer/black/hispanic/asian/disabled character!" quota that are there just so the creators can feel like they're diverse and inclusive, despite said characters being 2-D caricatures, walking stereotypes, or getting little to no screen time). That being said, it is a bit suspect when the only characters that someone seems to be able to write are male. Authors and artists are going to have personal preferences and things they find easier to relate to, but the differences between a good female character and a good male character really aren't that substantial. In the end, they're just good characters, and their gender is a part of their character but not the sum total of who they are.

[cherrycoloured.livejournal.com]

TBH, I kind of agree with you. If a cast is overwhelming male (particularly, white and male) for seemingly no purpose, it screams lazy to me. People often don't write characters outside of their comfort zone, but I think doing something that's not natural to you is an important part of writing and being creative. The default seems to be white male, and people always treat writing other groups as something difficult, but if you try to do it genuinely and with room to grow, it really isn't. I'm not saying that this comic couldn't be good, or that adding women or PoC would automatically make it better, but in the long run, trying new things will improve one's creativity, as well as how one sees the world around them.

[insanenoodlyguy]

You are an idiot, but at least you choose a good shit comic to serve as your example so thumbs up idiot.

[(Anonymous)]

You'll fit right in with the brony and moe anime slash harem dude-bro fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

it aggravates me that there aren't more female centric things, but I'm pretty sure this is just my own preference for boobs and moar boobs that drives this. as I'm sure other women's preference for dick and more dick drives their interest in all male casts. (If you're not as like watch/read something if the character's weren't male, I'm talking to you.)

White male is automatic for anything. This is vaguely annoying, I guess, but I don't think that creators that live in this culture are automatically shit if they succumb to this.

It DOES annoy me when it's at odds to the actual demographic of where the creative work is set -- sorry everyone, New York isn't all white people -- THAT'S lazy.

But does it automatically make something badly done? Nah...

I'd still rather read about an accurately diverse world, but we can't all be Tamora Pierce.

[tasogare_n_hime]

Maybe they have the same problem I do, no matter how much I try I couldn't draw a decent human male if my life depended on it. I know a few people who have that problem with female characters too.

[(Anonymous)]

Well this is fairly far down the list of "ways I subconsciously evaluate media" but it's on there. If there's no logical reason, it's almost definitely going to bug me and I wont read/watch it.

But everyone has things they're sensitive to in media? And yeah, I'm probably making a judgement about the creator. It's more "your ideas don't interest me" than "you hate women and have no imagination" though...

(don't know the comic in the BG so this is kind of lacking context)

[intrigueing]

Or they could, you know, be trying to increase readership by indulgently not scaring off them silly wittle teenage boys who are so desperately insecure about their manhood.

Sit down OP.

[(Anonymous)]

Jesus fucking christ. I am so tired of people--predominantly women--bandying around the term 'internalized misogyny.' All it shows, as far as I'm concerned, is the willful ignorance of the fact that it is possible for women to prefer mediums--whether it's video games, art, movies, etc.-- that feature a mostly male cast. And not only that, but that those women can and often do, in fact, still celebrate women in those same mediums, and can be/are still passionate about women's rights, enjoy the company of other women, and who don't automatically resort to gender-specific slurs when referring to women or women characters.

We do exist, I promise. However. What you don't seem to be grasping is the fact that the creator of the above mediums tend to be either a.) heterosexual men or b.) heterosexual women. There are exceptions of course, but the above are in the overwhelming majority. And the truth of the matter is, heterosexual women are more prone to write/create/etc. what they're interested in/sexually attracted to. In this case, men. Straight women enjoy looking at men. Straight men enjoy looking at/drawing/etc. women.

Why is this such a difficult concept? That isn't to say that men and women are incapable of going outside of that mold--and many do, and do it very well! But in general, a largely male cast is going to appeal more to the majority of straight women because that is what they themselves enjoy.

The fact that you and so many SJWs out there are so willing to shame others for these preferences is no better than the loudmouths insisting that there's no such thing as good female characters, or that women have no place in those industries/media forms. Which is bullshit on both accounts.

The point is that you can enjoy female casts and respect women and still not feel the need to shoehorn them into every single medium just for the sake of having more women. Sometimes having women in a certain environment/culture just doesn't make sense. Your stubborn refusal to not even give male-dominated comics/films/etc. is extremely petty and based on groundless assumptions/prejudices you've made. And that's your loss frankly, but tantruming about it all over F!S is really not doing you any favors.

[cloud_riven]

Hinabn is basically idfic (totally referring some edumacation i got from gc ♥). It isn't so much "internalized misogyny" as it's actually Tessa Stone writing/drawing what appeals to her. It's okay to like things \:U/

[childings.livejournal.com]

Yeah man fuck those straight women and their wanting to ogle dudes

[(Anonymous)]

I mostly just think it's slash-baiting, but then again, I read plenty of slashy webcomics that actually do have interesting female characters, so that really isn't an excuse either.

Especially considering tons of slash fans are pretty fucking misogynistic in general.

[rbhudson]

I thought since there was a secret about it that the comic had been updated. Silly me, it's dead, I need to accept that D:

[(Anonymous)]

I formerly wrote overwhlemingly male casts because of Mary Sue fear not out of sexism. When I was still fairly new I noticed that female characters got looked over with a lot more scrutiny than males, and being accused of being a "suethor" was something that got a lot of scorn.

As a kid who was treated crappy in real life by other kids and turned to fanfic/writing for an escape I didn't want to deal with that shit there too. Writing females became scary for me and so I defaulted to males because it was what was more comfortable to me. It wasn't because I hated females or thought them inferior, it was because the online writing community is ludicrously irrational about something as simple as an absurd wish fufillment character that I would eventually grow out of in a couple years anyway. I'm just saying this to say that lack of female characters in fiction nowadays may not always be about sexism.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

However now I've grown out of that since I've started really working on my writing (and learning what a Mary Sue actually is). I have a concept I'm developing for a work with a team of female characters and I've fleshed out the females in my main work.

I agree that there needs to be more variety in female characters and I think that can achieved by getting people to think of them as characters first rather than "female characters" and to toss aside the Strong Female Character (TM) archetype that Hollywood tries to push as well as the concept of 'purely boy traits" and "purely girl traits". We need to see that being feminine is not inherently inferior to being masculine. Don't treat female characters like special cases (that can be offensive in itself) and don't treat them like gods either ("oh no you can't have a female be potrayed as being wrong that's sexist. "). If you have more than one female character and a variety of different female characters, you shouldn't have to worry about one being accused of perpetuating a 'damaging image of all women'.

and like I mentioned above If we want to get people comfortable writing female characters, we should stop going apeshit and cussing out and shaming young beginner writers who write Mary Sueish females. Because guess what, harshly telling people who try to write a female character and make a rookie mistake that they should be ashamed for "staining people's eyes with their literary abomination" actually tends to make them less likely to want to try again.

tl;dr: there may be other reasons that people don't write female characters as often as male including the "Writing a mary sue is the worst sin you can commit EVAR" stigma that has cultivated on the internet. We need to get people to look at female characters as "characters who just happen to be female" rather than super holy freaking unicorns. Also the gender war is dumb. Equality of the genders FTW.

/just my two cents.

[(Anonymous)]

I like reading/viewing predominantly male characters because:
1. I like looking at/reading about attractive men.
2. I frequently (not always) am jealous of the insanely attractive females that get portrayed.

Hypocrisy I am you.

[(Anonymous)]

Considering webcomic artist/creators have more control over their stories than, say, people making big Hollywood movies or tv shows ... that's a pretty valid stance to take. They have the opportunity to be more gender balanced and then they don't take it. Weak.

[gabzillaz]

Well, I don't judge, but I tend to avoid stories where there are zero women.

One of the reasons I'm not very fond of Tintin.

[cupcakefiasco]

All I want to know is where that picture can be found as I haven't seen that one.

[(Anonymous)]

I can see your point, and part of me strongly agrees with you, but the way you phrased this makes me strongly doubt you are an original fiction writer. I am, and while I think that writers should be as diverse as they can be character-wise, sometimes it just doesn't happen that way.

One of my novels, for example, has a balanced cast gender-wise, but the protagonist, the antagonist, and 3/5 major characters are male. Granted, I'd say most of the minor characters are women, and I like to think that my two major-character girls are well-written - they are smart, well-rounded, independent people who are not just in the story to be love interests. They have their own ambitions and their own personalities, as every character should regardless of race/gender/etc. However, despite my hard work on my girls, I still feel like I'm probably going to get accused of having a predominantly male cast if this ever sees the light of day. And as a writer, to be honest, I don't really get it. My main character is a guy because he is a guy. So is my antagonist. There is simply no other reason for it. That's just how they came to me and it's how I've always seen them. It has nothing to do with "internalized misogyny". It has to do with the fact that the creative process is mysterious, and some characters - gasp! - end up being men.

There's trying to be inclusive in your writing, and then there's being diverse just for the sake of it. I'm all for writers being diverse and progressive, but if you try to make your characters fit labels when it's not really working for them, they often come across as unconvincing, which is the last thing you want. "Token" characters often do more harm than good to the demographic they're trying to represent.

I agree with you that all-male (AND all-female, IMO) casts are lazy writing. Writers who notice they're doing this should really make an effort to include at least a few female characters, if nothing else for the sake of realism. But time and effort should be spent on their development. They shouldn't just be cardboard cutouts. But in my opinion, there is nothing inherently wrong with having a predominantly male cast. It honestly just happens that way sometimes, and while I agree that the sheer number of predominantly male casts out there is problematic, no single author should be shat on for it unless you have some way of knowing they did it purposely (for sexist reasons).

[(Anonymous)]

Oh!Noes! TEH MISOGYNY!!! What ever shall we doooo!?!?!??? [*side-eye*] Males being prominent in a piece of fiction does not equal misogyny.

[(Anonymous)]

Sigh, good to know this is as polarising as always.