[ SECRET POST #2185 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2185 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[not a repeat; was broken yesterday]


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[not a repeat; was broken yesterday]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 034 secrets from Secret Submission Post #312.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[intrigueing]

Because it was really insensitive and self-indulgent to do it in front of Wilf and make him feel like crap and a big burden for y'know, daring to be in danger saving a guy's life. He didn't do it to fuck with the Doctor, and it wasn't about the Doctor. What most people think is "either save Wilf or don't, but don't whine about how it's all about you". Personally, I disagree with that. I thought the rant taken all on its own wasn't too terrible. It was actually pretty understandable that he might crack and show frustration and anger and fear for a moment there. It was the context behind it and the way he behaved after it, that it was "like death" and a big horrible end-of-the-world deal, and that his angst about it was super-duper important and him kicking up such a fuss about it was totally justified rather than being a rather silly moment of weakness, that pissed me off.

Not to mention, the part where he "established earlier that he felt like it was a kind of death" was pretty damn enraging and completely inconsistent with how the Doctor has always viewed regeneration, and that's not something that can be handwaved off as "but this is New Who" because Nine went out kind of scared, a bit sad, but ultimately with no regrets and hopeful about the future -- "I just want to say Rose, you were brilliant. And you know what? So was I!" I could definitely understand Ten being more scared and sad than Nine was, seeing as he didn't know Wilf as well as Rose, and given Ten had a much more emotional personality and was in a much worse place in his life, but a completely inconsistent 180 turnaround is not the same as a minor difference in how he approached it. Yes, he's Ten, not Nine or Eight or any of his previous regenerations, but ultimately, and more importantly, he's still the Doctor, and that part of him is the same throughout and should provide some consistency and continuity.

Contrasty to the anon above me, I actually really, really loved Ten. I just hated the way his arc ended on such a depressing and negative note instead of letting him overcome his issues and get a satisfying ending out of his character arc.

[(Anonymous)]

I am that anon, and I really didn't hate Ten. His personality, when viewed in a real-world sense, was okay to me. I liked him tons sometimes, couldn't stand him others. But what REALLY got me is how Russel T Davies portrayed him. It wasn't that he was controlling/whiny/insensitive, it was that he was controlling/whiny/insensitive and always right. I got this sense that Davies wanted us to see the Doctor as a sort of human god who almost never erred and always knew what was best. This really annoyed me.

I think my favorite moment is when Harriet Jones (Prime Minister) announced she still believed herself to be correct for installing the Torchwood weaponry, despite Ten having destroyed her regime (which was one of my least favorite moments).

But I agree with most of what you have to say. I mean, I completely understand feeling scared and upset. His personality was going to be mostly erased. It's pretty scary. But he's gone through it nine times, and he took it out on Wilf, and it was a bit infuriating from the perspective of someone who WILL die and will finally die and will only live 80-or-so years.

[wldcatsprstr_14]

I got this sense that Davies wanted us to see the Doctor as a sort of human god who almost never erred and always knew what was best. This really annoyed me.

Really? I felt like Ten was the Doctor who was wrong, and called on it, more than any of the NuWho Doctors. And this is even before his god complex kicks into overdrive. So I just don't understand this reading of him. He was almost always being chastised for being a know-it-all controlling ass.

[(Anonymous)]

Really? I just didn't get this sense. Like his wiping Donna's memory against her will, ruining Harriet Jones (former Prime Minister's) career, trying to keep the Master alive, telling Rose she has to leave to learn how to control the human Doctor, trying to force her to leave in the first place...jeez, I can't think of more off the top of my head, but he's always just controlling people's lives in little ways and no one questions this. I mean, the people he's controlling get upset, but there's this sense of "I'm right, you're wrong; I'm smart, you're dumb, and there's nothing you can do about it!".

And then there's the fact that Eleven has episodes like The Beast Below and God Complex which establish that he's not always right, he thinks a bit too much of himself, and sometimes he knows the best answer should not be made easily. It felt like it actually was in answer to Ten (and Eleven's), well...god complex.

[wldcatsprstr_14]

Well in all those instances, no one really had the option. Those were all spur of the moment 'can't turn back' kind of moments. Ten got called on his arrogance by a lot of people (Martha, Donna, Queen Victoria, that astronaut lady whose name I forget) and he also gets to see the crap consequences of his arrogance too.

IDK, I guess he just has more small moments of being chastised than Eleven's grander moments (Beast Below, God Complex, Good Man Goes to War).

[(Anonymous)]

IDK, I guess he just has more small moments of being chastised than Eleven's grander moments (Beast Below, God Complex, Good Man Goes to War).

I agree with this, but it's also the reason Ten frustrated me: he had so many opportunities to change his behavior and way of thinking, and never did. If he had grown and stopped taking himself so seriously before he regenerated, I'd think his character arc was the best arc of all the Doctors. But it didn't. He never grew. He didn't change his actions. He just got sadder and angrier and more self-loathing, and clung to his self-importance and arrogance right until his regeneration.

And maybe there's some literary tragic merit to that approach, but in a cracky show with a 50-year legacy about a whacky dickish guy who wears ridiculous clothes and travels around in a police box with pretty young women and is kind of completely fucking awesome, it just made me feel sad and frustrated and cheated.

[wldcatsprstr_14]

He never grew. He didn't change his actions. He just got sadder and angrier and more self-loathing, and clung to his self-importance and arrogance right until his regeneration.

Looking back, I think he was the valley to Nine's peak. Nine grew out of all his anger and sadness when he found Rose. Ten went the opposite way when he lost her. It's actually kind of interesting.

[(Anonymous)]

Er, he didn't have to threaten Harriet Jones' ministry. He was trying to make the choice for Rose the first time she got sent into the other universe, because he was acting like he knew what was best for her (being with her family) when she disagreed (staying with him). And the second time he sent her back it was because she had to control the Doctor, which I felt was just stupid. He's human and without a TARDIS. Essentially powerless. But Rose's feelings and wants don't matter because the Doctor wants something else. Ugh.

As far as wiping Donna's memories, again--this is him making a decision for her. I don't hate him for doing it, but she was asking him not to. He did it anyway because he believed he knew what was best, despite her protestations.

And I already expressed my feelings on him keeping the Master alive. That was hardly necessary and obviously dangerous.

Actually, I feel like that's my issue when compared to Nine or Eleven: Ten often is controlling in small ways and over people's lives in an everyday fashion. 11 and 9 control when it is necessary and saves many lives, rarely just because they *think* it will make people happier or because they *think* the world is better off without so-and-so as leader.

[inkmage]

Harriet Jones (Prime Minister)

We know who she is.

[intrigueing]

A+ :D

[othellia]

I think my favorite moment is when Harriet Jones (Prime Minister) announced she still believed herself to be correct for installing the Torchwood weaponry, despite Ten having destroyed her regime (which was one of my least favorite moments).

Ugh, yes. Especially knowing that after Harriet Jones, Harold Saxon and the guy in Children of Earth soon followed. Like all of Children of Earth is one a giant pro-Harriet/Torchwood campaign for why the earth needs legit defenses for when the Doctor's not there.

It's one of my least favorite moments as well, if not the least favorite.