fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2204 ]

[ SECRET POST #2204 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2204 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 091 secrets from Secret Submission Post #315.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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FWIW I've only ever really seen the New Who episodes (I've seen a few older ones here and there but not many), and this didn't piss me off. I actually kind of think I need to watch more Old Who... it's a matter of where to start?!

I'd suggest starting... just anywhere! At least, that's what I did... a serial form 2 here, a serial from 6 there, and so on and so forth. I discovered who I did/did not like for both the Doctors and Companions, and if I didn't enjoy the serial, I would start a different one and maybe come back to it later, sometimes not.

Where the rest of us did, nonny -- with Unearthly Child.

While An Unearthly Child is a great place to start (I love One and Susan), I don't think most - or even a significant portion - of original series fans started with it. (I sure didn't - I'd seen all of Seven, a significant portion of Three, and a very bad stretch of Four long before ever managing to see the early episodes.)

Oh I don't know, I probably started watching somewhere in the era of Five, but my earliest memories are actually of Three and four, with that story from Six with the Rani's turn-people-into-trees mines.

But then I grew up watching Old Who on TV and was dependant on what the ABC had on or was doing re-runs of at the time. I later started hiring videos of One and Two stories when I found them in video stores, and that was when I saw An Unearthly Child.

Depends on what you like, really. I've known people who started on Three, on Seven, on Four. People who cheery-picked their way through the series based on whatever episodes they could scrounge. It's all good. (Well, okay, all of them have extremely shaky episodes scattered around, don't immediately write off a Doctor based on one episode. And if you're watching Six, don't start with Timelash).

I do tend to think Five is a good start from NuWho, he feels quite similar. A Doctor struggling with morality, companions with traumatic stories, comfort and genius and angst. And one of the most crowded TARDIS' in the old series, because Five had a lot of companions.

Four was more alien, less human-centric, with more far flung companions. You got a lot of Time Lord and universe stories with Four. Some good'n'creepy ones with early Four as well, when he was travelling with Sarah-Jane. Of course, by the time we get to late Four you've got some really crazy stories, too.

Three is a Doctor stranded on Earth, forced to work with humans much, much closer than he prefers. He's cranky and a little bit bitter and tends towards James Bond if James Bond had more of a scientific bent. Plus, the Brigadier and UNIT are awesome, Jo was one of my favourite companions, and the Master makes his first suave and Bond-villain style appearances.

Two was more the Doctor in lets-cheerfully-bumble-into-danger mode, with flashes of danger and darkness. Two also had some fabulous companions, ones he got very close to (Two/Jamie is one of the major slash pairs of Old Who, if that's of interest to you. I think the other main one would be Five/Turlough, and Doctor/Master).

One, I admit I've seen least of. But Ian and Barbara are sort of awesome companions, and I will always cherish the memory of Barbara telling the Doctor to shut the hell up and stop yelling at them, he was the one who got them into this mess in the first place.

Six is more of an acquired taste, but if you liked Ten towards the end of his run, Six will probably feel quite similar. Rage and pain and occasional cruelty, with loyalty and honour underneath. Six also has a massive fight with the Timelords over one of his main arcs, which is fascinating in hindsight from Ten. (Six also has Doctor vs Master vs Rani in the same story, in which the Rani knees the Master in the balls, so there's also that).

Seven is more intimate, in some ways, less of the sprawling stories from earlier Doctors. Seven plays chess against monsters, with stories with a lot of moral ambiguity and sacrifice, and a lot of touching Doctor/Companion moments. Plus, Ace whaling on a Dalek with a baseball bat, and the Brigadier passing the torch to the next generation.

Eight I can't really speak of, I haven't read much of the EU. The movie was ... interesting? Slightly complicated canon-wise, though (it has a half-human Doctor, which is slightly weird).

Um. So. Pick your poison, really, it's all good. I would tend to start with one of the earlier Doctors, several of them make more sense when you've some knowledge of their predecessors (Six, coming from Five, Seven from Three and Four, Four from Three), but as I said. Whichever way works for you.

This is a fabulous comment and I love and agree with everything you've said about each regeneration.

Thank you! I sort of love all the regenerations, which I suspect helps.

This comment is very good! I second the Six/Ten parallels (he's also a good deal like Four, with the hyperness and stuff). Also, I'd like to add that personally, Eleven reminds me a lot of Two and quite a bit of Seven (especially wrt his emotions and companion relationships), and Nine really reminds me of One in some ways (gruff/silly/aloof/sweet contrasts ahoy), so if you have a fave New Who Doctor, you might find it easier to ease in with someone a bit familiar. (Of course people might disagree with me, but that's another good thing about Who: lots of different interpretations and ways to look at the characters are possible).

Yes, Eleven reminded me a lot of Seven. His relationship with Ace, it does remind a touch of Eleven and Amy, too. Nine struck me a little bit more like Three? Shellshocked and a little bit bitter, the survivor with a touch of PTSD.

Oh yes, Nine was definitely quite Three-ish too, thanks for reminding me.

I've never made the comparison, but it certainly explains why Eleven and Nine are my favourite new!Who Doctors and why Ten never really did it for me. Three (my first classic!Doctor!) and Seven (along with Five) are my all-time favourite classic!Who Doctors, but Six never worked for me. Nine got me into Who, Ten almost lost me (especially towards the end of his run) and I love Eleven to pieces. He has such a lovely classic!Doctor feel to him!

But what I really need to watch more of is Two and Four. Two, because he seems so fascinating and Four, well, because I want to love him as much as everybody else does, but so far it just doesn't really work. I have watched quite a few of his stories and I like him well enough, but the special something is still missing for me...

I'm gonna pop in here and vouch for Two like whoa because asdhjgsjdf I love him. Okay, I love all the Doctors, but Two's methods and his dynamic with Jamie and Zoe in particular are ridiculously adorable, and if you like Eleven you'll probably like Two too. Plus his era was when the show was forced to shoot lots of stories on cramped small sets, making many of them bottle-episode-ish, which I have a big weakness for. The main problem is that his runs has a lot of random missing episodes, so completion's really a bitch in that era.

On the flip side, while Four is awesome personality-wise, I gotta admit the very alien and disconnected-from-humanity feel of a lot of his run post-Sarah Jane wasn't all that appealing to me. The era thankfully had some really well-written stories to make up for it but still...*shrugs* a personal thing I suppose.

As for Six...well, as I said, I love all the Doctors, but I didn't really enjoy Six much until I recently got my hands on a couple of his audio dramas. He really shines in those far more than on the show.

On the flip side, while Four is awesome personality-wise, I gotta admit the very alien and disconnected-from-humanity feel of a lot of his run post-Sarah Jane wasn't all that appealing to me.

I was actually the opposite. I quite enjoyed something that wasn't always human-human-human-HUMAN, that humans weren't the most important things in the universe. Four gave a bit of a taste of a universe that was busily noodling along, no matter what was happening on Earth. It made the rest of the series feel a bit bigger, somehow, a reminder that there was more out there than just what humanity happens to bump into.

And, actually, that's one of the things I'm not so hot on in NuWho, the idea that Earth is the center of the universe, that without Gallifrey we're all that's important. A touch of Four now and then makes a good antidote.

As you said, personal taste, and Four isn't even my favourite Doctor. I just ... like that sense of 'there's more' that his era gives.

Well I suppose I should clarify: it wasn't the oh-noes-it's-not-all-earth-all-the-time vibe that didn't appeal to me. Heck, I wouldn't care if we went a whole season without ever visiting earth. It was more that (and I know I'm probably one of a very few people who think this) I wasn't super gung-ho about Leela or Romana as companions. I mean, I liked them as characters a whole hell of a lot and I really enjoyed several individual stories in their runs, but when I put their stories all together in a row the dynamic created a kind of...vacuum where I was craving the human perspective? Eh, I'm probably just personally biased, because it was great in small doses, but altogether wasn't my favorite.

However, IA about NuWho making Earth the center of the universe all the fucking time being rather annoying. Have you seen that RTD quote where someone asked him why so many of his stories are set in present-day earth, and he says something along the lines of "the Zogs from planet Zog are being threatened by the Zog-monster: who cares?" like the audience wouldn't give a damn if it wasn't earth being threatened. THAT really bugs me too.

I always thought that Leela and her tribe came from human stock, but I guess the issue with her is that she's so different from *us* with her alien planet and savage tribal background that she doesn't quite mesh for some as an audience avatar.

And I agree with you about the Zogs - why can't we see the human companions meeting the Zogs and seeing they're kinda almost just like humans and damn they may be Zogs but can we save them from the Zog-monster because even Zogs deserve to be saved too?

+1 on the Second Doctor stuff - Matt Smith has said before that he's a big fan of Two, and you can see echoes of him in Eleven at times and it is pretty lovely. Two and Jamie and Zoe are my favorite classic TARDIS team.

I always recommend "Remembrance of the Daleks" (Seven and Ace era) and "City of Death" (Four and Romana II era) for new fans.

There are other serials that I like better, but I think those are the ones that would be the easiest for new viewers who are used to the new series to get into without becoming bored by the old-fashioned pacing and writing or put off by the different style and/or budget-fail.

I like to start people with Four's first serial 'Robot'.

If you are put off by the terrible bluescreen robot and hilariously obvious remote-control plastic tank, rather than amusedly charmed and/or able to overlook it for the story and characters, then Old Who probably isn't for you. XD

If you are put off by the terrible bluescreen robot and hilariously obvious remote-control plastic tank, rather than amusedly charmed and/or able to overlook it for the story and characters, then Old Who probably isn't for you. XD

This is a concern, yes. I madly adore Three, for example, and I've always had a sneaking fondness for shoddy BBC Sci-fi sets (I watched Blake's 7, you've got to), but I still remember the shambling foam tentacle monsters from The Claws of Axos and have to giggle. All of UNIT looks so terrified, and yet the monsters are so clearly men in bad foam suits.

I mean, I adore it, I truly do, but if you're used to NuWho and CGI, good lord are you in for some culture-shock.

I always have such trouble picking out specific serials to tell people to start with, because all my favourites sort of require context. I mean, I keep wanting to go: "You should watch Inferno! It's Who's answer to the Mirror!verse from Star Trek! It's awesome!" But Inferno doesn't have the impact unless you've spent some time with the Brigadier beforehand. Or: "You should watch Battlefield! Bambera/Ancelyn! The Brigadier and Ace!" But, then, again, I have to remember that it just won't mean the same things unless you've already met UNIT during Three's era.

The one I personally started on was Pyramids of Mars, from early Four, because my Dad told me quite firmly that if you wanted Who, you wanted Four. And while Four never became my favourite Doctor, it turned out there was nothing wrong with that serial, it was quite enjoyable. And obviously I'm still hooked, so something must have stuck.

I do have fond memories of Resurrection of the Daleks, from the Fifth Doctor era. It showed a lot of Five's struggle for morality, and his sometimes-painful relationships with his companions. If you're coming from NuWho, that mightn't be a bad place to start. Though, yes, the pacing is old-fashioned.

I just ... am never very good at picking specific stories to point people at.

Those are both the serials I'd go for too, but with the additional recommendation that if you find yourself going "okay, this is cute and fun, but I can't say I'm impressed," follow them up with "Curse of Fenric" (Seven and Ace) and/or "Genesis of the Daleks" (Four and Sarah Jane).

Additional recommendations:

- There is a lot to be said for watching One's first season in order! Maybe not as your first foray into classic Who, because it's not at all representative of the rest of the show, but that's what makes it enchanting: the format is open-ended; they go off on ridiculous quests and have episodes set entirely in the TARDIS and hang out in different time periods just for fun; it's heavy on wonder and exploration and pulling absolute magic out of tin-can equipment, no budget, and creative uses for random items. (So basically the show is the Doctor and the Doctor is the show? Ahaha oh god.)

- This has nothing to do with anything and is by no means a serial impressive for its sterling quality, but goddammit if "Time Monster" (feat. Three, Jo, UNIT, the Master, and a bunch of phallic objects) wasn't the first serial to make me go "oh my god, show, I love your stupid face." It's made of the most delicious crack all the way through.

- ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING WITH SEVEN AND ACE might be a good jumping-off point from New Who, because (a) they are flawless and Ace is a teenage misfit tomboy explosives expert and Seven shamelessly enables her blowing-shit-up tendencies, and (b) it has a lot of elements in common with New Who, particularly Ace having a (troubled) home life and a real character arc. And the darker, manipulative take on the Doctor. And Daleks flying up stairs.

- If all else fails, seriously, pick a random serial out of a hat and sit down with a friend, some cheap wine, and zero expectations. That is seriously my main strategy for watching classic Who. (Except instead of picking things out of a hat we tend to turn to each other and go "So, I haven't seen _____, are you up for it?")

IA with all of this (well, not completely, I didn't much care for the Time Monster despite it's entertaining crackiness but then again I'm not nearly as big a Master fan as you ;)).

I really like watching One's episodes in order because dammit, even if they tend to be standalone-y his character arc in them is SO WONDERFUL. Yeah, it probably was way more motivated by "okay, lets make this guy likable too instead of just the teachers" on the part of the writers, but it works. So well. In retrospect it's very easy to view him as a young rebellious guy in an old man's body who behaves like an old wise guy but thinks like a young guy, kind of an inverse-Eleven. And the way he grows so much and loosens up and stops trying to be so ~impressive and ~mature and ~important and opens up under Ian and Barbara's influence in particular until he starts understanding these odd human types and their idiosyncrasies and is comfortable being genuinely sweet and silly and having loads of fun is just...*hugs* Best character development out of all the Doctors, hands down. *goes off to rewatch The Space Museum*

First, unless you're really picky about spoilers, watch the video I'm linking below featuring really well-edited and arranged clips of all the Doctors dealing with pre- and post-regeneration issues, comparing and contrasting them and doing an absolutely fabulous job of conveying a sense of continuity and "oh yes, these are totally all the same one guy".

You'll probably be endeared or at least charmed and amused by all eleven of them by the end of the video, and I think rubbing away some of the disconnect and dissonance between old and new Who doctors is the best way of opening yourself up to trying out the old stories. After all, it's much less tedious to watch story you're kind of iffy on if you like the main character already.

here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aivYb_0npqw

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[ SECRET POST #2204 ]

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