[ SECRET POST #2210 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2210 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 101 secrets from Secret Submission Post #316.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[visp]

Well, assuming that you aren't just trying to start a flame war, you have to understand that Japanese police operate for a different purpose than the US or UK. Their society values conformity, hierarchy, respect for one's superiors, siding with your own and quietly resolving matters. There's less interest in the rights of the individual, when it might conflict with the good of the whole. Also, they had a pretty low crime rate (and still do have, for a lot of things). Their policing strategy was based on a, sort of, 'Village Constable That Knows Everyone And Can Quietly Resolve Matters' idea, where each small block has its own small station, who goes door-to-door like the neighbor who comes and brings a housewarming casserole when you move in.

The problem is that this method doesn't always translate well to modern metropolitan cities. Add the racism towards foreigners, and the whole 'forget it Jake, it's Chinatown' dynamic sets in, where the foreigners don't trust the cops and the cops have no idea how to deal with the foreigners. Then you have the problems with organized crime, which you can't really deal with a'la friendly village officer.

Then, the concept of wanting unpleasant problems to be resolved quietly and calmly, a feeling that the good of society is better served by making everyone feel that crime doesn't pay and all bad people are quickly caught translates to the Terry Pratchett "So many crimes are solved by a happy accident, by someone of the right nationality happening to be within 5 miles of the scene of the crime without an alibi.” A lower cultural value placed on the rights of the individual means that there's less care taken for individual rights and whether or not that one person happens to be innocent, which in theory is sacrificing one for the good of many, but in practice just leads to people not trusting the cops, further hindering their operational model of Friendly Village Cop.

Then, you take the culture of not wanting to make a scene, not wanting to embarrass your own, not wanting to ever speak of embarrassing things, and loyalty to your own, and there's a lot of good that comes from that. However, on the flip side, imagine how difficult it is to perform an effective internal investigation and weed out corruption.

Also, look at the history of NYPD, Chicago Cops, etc. and see how long it took us to learn how to quasi-effectively run a metropolitan police force that wasn't much more than a big corrupt gang with badges, and understand that the current changes in Japanese big cities mean that they're just dealing with problems that the US and UK were dealing with 80 years ago (multiculturalism, group loyalty hindering effective internal governance). Then add a culture that doesn't like to change.

TL;DR, they do a lot of things very well, and they're doing their best to adjust to a lot of new challenges.

[ill_omened]

Add onto this the way the court system works, and you've strongly incentivised shoddy police work. In fact I would say that's probably one of the biggest issues. At almost every level the incentives punish full and proper investigation, and reward clean up and disinterest. Don't pay too much attention to that suspicious murder and hey suicide, everyone's happy.

Even without that, you would still have the issue of a lack of experience. Any given Met constable with five years on the job has literally dealt with more then the average career of a Japanese officer. And if you don't have that experience, it's very difficult to build an effective police culture - even if you didn't have everything working against you.

These are explanations, not defences though. Honestly, probably the best things they could do short of overhauling their entire system, is having officers come in from abroad to sort shit out on an operational level, if you get it going long enough, police are very effective at transmitting practice throughout the generations and continue the work for you.

Very ~white mans burden I know~, but it was what they did in Hong Kong, and they managed to turn the HKPF from a corrupt mess, into a decent force.

[visp]

Honestly, probably the best things they could do short of overhauling their entire system, is having officers come in from abroad to sort shit out on an operational level

They won't even bring in foreign experts to help clean up the radioactive mess from the Tsunami.

“Even if a method works overseas, the soil in Japan is different, for example,” said Hidehiko Nishiyama, deputy director at the environment ministry, who is in charge of the Fukushima cleanup. “And if we have foreigners roaming around Fukushima, they might scare the old grandmas and granddads there.”

And yeah, about Hong Kong. Although now that the Mainlanders are in charge, I hold little hope for it staying that way.

[(Anonymous)]

Well it doesn't bode very well to have foreign scientists coming in to help with the fallout when that would involve admitting it's been federal policy in Japan to bury chemical and nuclear waste in the ground for decades.

Side note: Don't drink the tap water in Japan, kids!

[(Anonymous)]

Now now now, that's going too far. Depending on where you live, tap water is as safe as it gets.

[visp]

A-yup. And that's the public excuse they feel comfortable saying on the airwaves. Ah, Japan!

[(Anonymous)]

Well, I think you also have to question whether they have the incentive to reform things or whether the Japanese police force as presently established basically fulfills the functions that the Japanese establishment wants it to. I mean, it's definitely conceivable that the current state of things is acceptable to the stakeholders involved, isn't it?

[ill_omened]

Majority of stakeholders. And I suppose it might be. Though there are signs of things changing. I am reminded of the outrage following an ongoing case of a hacker making the police look completely useless, having a number of innocent people arrested and plead guilty, before he showed they were innocent.

That only affects the will for change, not the need.

I think it would be rather difficult to argue in good conscious that the current way of doing things is acceptable.

[visp]

Well, the problem is that society is changing and the current methods don't work as well as they might have in the past. Also, the whole "we just need to quickly get someone behind bars and make all this go away" mentality is rather like using credit cards to live above your means - eventually it bites you in the ass. Because the more they do that, the less people trust the cops, which means the cops are less effective, because no one will talk to them or cooperate for fear of being the easiest target, or making a friend the easiest target. Also, the real culprits are still out there, still getting away with crimes.

[(Anonymous)]

I was under the impression that Jackie Chan solves all of the crimes in Hong Kong.

[(Anonymous)]

Hell, look at the *current* New Oreans PD...

[visp]

Yeah... not exactly a shining bastion of above-board competence.

[(Anonymous)]

It's still not as bad as it used to be, amazingly!

From what I've read, back in the 90s, New Orleands Police were actually closer to a gang than a police force, and played a major role in transporting and selling drugs.

[silverau]

This is interesting. Thanks for typing this up.

[visp]

You're quite welcome. Of course, I have to caveat that it's even more complicated than a mere page of generalizations can describe, but yeah, it's an interesting, alternative way of policing that reacts differently to society, and is quite fascinating, actually. Unless, of course, you're in a situation to get the bad end of it, in which case it's less fascinating and more angering.

[yeahscience]

Well summed up. There's also the issue that a lot of people here feel that the end justifies the means... which leads to problems like abuse in schools, but also leads to the enormously and artificially high rate of false confessions and the rather inhumane interrogation system.

And of course, when it comes to domestic abuse and child abuse issues, they have almost no recourse at all.

Which is not to say I'm a fan of the police out here, because frankly, they can be total assholes (especially to us foreigners). But yeah, they are impeded by a lot of societal issues.

[visp]

And when you add "end justifies the means" to "and you mustn't question the validity of the end, or even if we truly achieved it, because that would be publicly embarrassing," you just get a lot of dubious "means."

[yeahscience]

Y U P. Did you read the recent news about the poor kid who killed himself after being beaten and humiliated by his coach? That was what made me think of "abuse in schools." The coach continues to insist that his abusive methods were working, and people are backing him up because of this. They win, so it must be okay. On the police side, as long as there are convictions, the rest doesn't matter.

[visp]

I don't read about Japanese schools anymore - too many "we make the Catholic Church look tough on child molesters and men who rape teenage girls," stories.

[cloudsinvenice]

Thanks for this; I never expected to learn about the Japanese policing system when I came to the comm today, but it's been fascinating!

[visp]

Fandom_secrets! Sometimes socially educational and horizon-broadening (but mainly weird - today I learned what a pec job is).