[ SECRET POST #2220 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2220 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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03.


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04.


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05.
[Sherlock, The Hobbit, Doctor Who]


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06.
[Hotel Transylvania]


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07.
[Skyfall]


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08.
[Love Actually]


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09.
[The Walking Dead]


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10.
[Small Wonder]


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11.
[Star Trek: Deep Space Nine]


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12.
[Downton Abbey]


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13.
[Magi]


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14.
[Homestuck]


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15.


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16.


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17.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 042 secrets from Secret Submission Post #317.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[ill_omened]

The UK is a lot less homophobic then America tho.

And if you took out all the religious minorities that'd drop even further.

Portrayal of inter-racial relationships on TV is also another big one to take note of.

[iggy]

LGBTQ hate crimes are actually on the rise in the UK, but either way I never said that there was more homophobia/the same amount of homophobia in the UK. I said that there's homophobia, and it's ridiculous to argue that there isn't because of queer-baiting (which again, is super common in both countries) on a fictional show. Well it's ridiculous to argue that there isn't period, but yeah. It's not a pro-gay utopia and it's damn insulting to actual LGBTQ citizens for Britaboos to act like it is.

Anyway, people saying that the UK isn't homophobic because of Sherlock and Watson is ridiculous even if there WEREN'T a fair amount of homophobia in the UK. And acting like a US show would have any problem portraying a 'bromance' to the level of BBC Sherlock is ignorant and false because it's been done time and time again.

It's the same thing as weeaboos acting like Japan must be totally gay-friendly because yaoi (although in all actuality, Japan is far less gay-friendly than the US).

[ill_omened]

That doesn't really disprove anything. There's always myriad factors at play there.

Now I doubt people are saying 'look, bromance is reducing homophobia!', they're almost certainly going to be arguing its greater presence is evidence of a more tolerant culture. Which it is.

[iggy]

If bromance is evidence of a more tolerant culture, then I'm surprised that it's so massively common in the supposedly vastly more homophobic than the UK, US media. ;)

[ill_omened]

Gay subtext in an unironic fashion or whatevs. Not Scrubs style post-ironic celebration of masculine friendship.

[iggy]

But most of the UK shows that people hail as progressive for their bromance are just ironic subtext (aka queerbaiting)...?

Sherlock and Watson's relationship is no more progressive and gay friendly than JD and Turk's. It being a comedy series doesn't make it less intimate (and there are plenty of bromances that are in drama shows and therefore have a similar feel to BBC Sherlock's).

Really US television, film, etc. kind of rules the bromance genre.

(I don't think bromance is progressive though. It's been around forever. Super close, almost intimate, male friendships are as old as time.)

[(Anonymous)]

I think JD and Turk is more gay-friendly than Sherlock and John. For one: JD and Turk don't deny their love for each other.

[(Anonymous)]

I felt super welcome as a lesbian in England when holding hands with my girlfriend got me glared at, honked at, and flipped off...? And just all the general casual stuff on TV/whatever.

I guess England is a little better or something and they have civil unions, but I personally didn't see that much of a difference, to be honest.

[ill_omened]

Do you want to know how welcome I felt in Alabama?

Because nah, it's a pretty appreciable difference. Even if we're instead comparing say Seattle to our better places.

[iggy]

You're comparing one of the most progressive cities in the UK to one of the least progressive states in the US.

Walking around on the streets of Manhattan, NYC or Seattle with your partner is generally not going to be much different from walking on the streets with your partner in London, reaction wise.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm from and still live in Oklahoma. I know pretty well what it's like, and I still felt very uncomfortable being gay in England (been to several places, including London; London was a little better).

This isn't to say England is some kind of hate-filled hellhole--obviously not--but I wouldn't necessarily call it "way better" or hail it as a real progressive place anything, on the whole.

[(Anonymous)]

Some parts of the UK are much less homophobic than some parts of the US. This is also true in reverse. And as a neutral observer, I find British TV much more homophobic and transphobic than US TV (don't say "It's just British humor" either, because I've heard it all before and it's not an excuse).

[(Anonymous)]

The UK is a lot less homophobic then America tho

That's really not true. We've got good places and bad places like any other country.

[visp]

Eeeh, not really. Their 'bad spots' for homophobia are just as bad as the USA ones, if not worse, and their 'good spots' still haven't legalized gay marriage.

[ill_omened]

Are you talking england, or britain? Norn Iron being a shithole for gay rights sure, but even the worst parts of say Nottingham still don't compare to the worst of the south.

And we had civil partnerships (which were literally in all but name the same as marriage) years ago, and are putting through the legislation to change it to marriage now.

Fuck it, I'm going to see if I can pull up some stats, because this has certainly not been my experience, and I'm always dubious of 'everything is the same, and nothing is different'.

[ill_omened]

Here we go http://pewglobal.org/files/pdf/258.pdf

Yes, I'm sure that despite a 20% in acceptance rates (page 35), it's fair to say things are basically exactly the same.

[iggy]

Those stats are over five years old. Opinion toward gay marriage and lgbtq rights on the whole has shifted DRASTICALLY in the last several years. The majority of Americans statistically support gay marriage as of at the latest 2011, and this is no doubt a higher percentage now.

And no civil partnerships are NOT the same as marriage. Separate but equal /=/ equality.

[ill_omened]

Well yes, because as the stats I've linked show, you were two percent off majority. I could believe that. Still not going to have shifted that drastically, however, I think you're heavily underestimating how much of a difference twenty percent is in these things, and the cultural differences that speaks too.

And separate but equal is a hell of a lot better then no rights, come on.

[iggy]

Uh yes there has been a drastic shift, and being that you don't live in the country, why do you find that so hard to believe? No offense, but you're kind of acting like you have intimate theoretical knowledge of a country that you don't even live in but have visited (I guess?), which is sort of obnoxious. But okay, you continue idealizing your own country and it's superiority, and thus ignoring the problems within it that not only me but other commenters have pointed out which is extremely harmful.

"No rights at all." Yes LGBTQ citizens have 'no rights at all' within the US. Again, you're kind of showing that you have no idea what you're talking about. They have rights of visitation, there is hate crime legislation, there are anti-discrimination laws in many states, DaDT was repealed (a move approved by over 80% of the population), etc. Gay marriage is now legal in eleven states and that number is swelling by the year. Is there still a ton to be done? Heck yes. Is there still a lot of homophobia. Oh god yes. But we're still a hell of a lot more privileged than most countries in the world when it comes to 'rights.'

Btw gay marriage support nationally is at around 70%, which is only a few percentage points under the UK (which is 71%).

And as you seem to think 'the south' is the whole damn country, it's not, and it's only one small part. Despite having a lot of land in the midwest/south/etc., most of the population of the country is centered in more progressive states.

[ill_omened]

Because it's a seriously substantial shift, to the tune of nearly a fifty percent increase from original tolerance, in under a decade. That is a tremendous jump, and the onus on you to provide the data that isn't the case.

And you'd be wrong on that, I've lived in your country.

As for your comment, that just shows how lacking your argument here is. You were clearly and unarguably referring to civil marriage there, in the context of your post and that's what my response was in reference to - and now you've tried to generalise it? No, knock that off and actually answer what I said.

You've almost clearly misunderstood the thrust of my point, which is unsurprising given how badly you're trying to jump to a defence here. No, you're not nearly the worst. Hell as gay rights and treatment go, you're pretty decent. I was just saying you weren't as good as the UK. Which you're not.

Which also isn't to say the UK is some perfect glorious paradise - I live here and live with the fucking downsides, but I wasn't saying that, so.

[iggy]

A shift of twenty percent to the positive in support of gay marriage in the US in five years is a huge shift, and you're plainly wrong if you think it isn't. FYI since you mentioned ten years ago, ten years ago two thirds of Americans were opposed to gay marriage. Now two thirds support it. How is that not a drastic shift in public opinion, which you denied has occurred in the comment previous to this?

When did you live in the US? ...In Alabama.

You said 'civil unions are better than no rights', and I pointed out that there are rights. I didn't misconstrue your statement at all.

No you said in your statement that it is a 'a lot less' homophobic, not less, and continued to argue that statement with old statistics and a total disregard to people's statements saying their experience has been otherwise.

[ill_omened]

That's, that's what I'm saying. That it is a huge shift. That it is a massive one, and that's why I found it hard to believe. I was asking for a bit of backing to that.

You clearly did misconstrue my statement because you went on to talk about general rights, and took my singular statement to be plural. You were talking about general rights that you had, which cool? But clearly not part of the remit outlaid - we were discussing the right to marry.

For the record, I'm the only person to have put out any statistics here. Unless you want to count your completely uncontextualised references to random numbers. And I've dismissed people feels, because it's a ridiculous way to measure the performance of two different countries.

[fuchsiascreams]

I'd have to agree with this. Actually, to be honest, I think the U.S. is probably one of the most, if not the most, homophobic developed nation in the world.

[(Anonymous)]

really!? better come out then! sure none of my friends will isolate me and call me a faggot!