[ SECRET POST #2221 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2221 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 022 secrets from Secret Submission Post #317.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[queelez]

The half-human 'subplot' (if it can be called that; it's really more a handful of lines) is a remnant from the first draft of the movie, which was a ground-up reboot, as opposed to a revival. The bulk of the story was the Doctor searching for his father, a Time Lord named Ulysses, and the revelation that his mother was a woman from Earth. Also, the Master was his brother, and Borusa (High Chancellor of the Time Lords) the Doctor's grandfather. And the Master created the Daleks.

Yeah, I've never encountered anybody who's bummed that story didn't turn out working. The Doctor Who Wikia has a super interesting article on the creative process behind the movie. (Fun fact: Christopher Lloyd was so close to playing the Master, and the studio's first three choices for the Doctor were Harrison Ford, Tom Hanks, and Jim Carrey).

Though I haven't listened to all of Big Finish, to the best of my knowledge, they don't really address much of it? But then one of the other tricky thing about Eight's timeline is that there's so much of it: a book series with seventy-some books, comics that ran in Doctor Who Magazine, and Big Finish's audio adventures. And all of them sort of contradict each other. It's complicated.

(Fun Fact #2: In one of Eight's books, it's hinted that his extremely complicated and paradox-ridden life has given rise to three potential Ninth incarnations: the one we see in Scream of the Shalka [Richard E Grant], the one from Curse of Fatal Death [Rowan Atkinson], and the one from the show proper [Christopher Eccleston]).

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Thanks for the info! Wow, there really is no end to the stuff I need to check out, is there? LOL!

[queelez]

Hah, there's a lot! The TV show proper, Big Finish, the what-if stuff Big Finish does, and then maybe four or five book series? And then there's the spinoffs, with Torchwood and Sarah Jane and K-9...

You'll pretty much never run out, that's for sure!

[tenlittlebullets]

That's the thing about Doctor Who fandom. "Oh," you say, "half a dozen seasons that aren't even very long? I can totally get caught up on this!" And then you find out about the twenty-six seasons of Classic Who. And the movie. And the spinoffs like Torchwood and SJA. And then you find out about the giant ball of wibbly-wobbly canony-fanony stuff that consists of the Big Finish audios, another half-dozen book series, the audiobooks, the comics, the Peter Cushing movies, the Red Nose Day comedy sketches, the webcasts and animated features, and the perpetual moving target that is Shada, all of which is mutually incompatible and most of which has been Jossed by canon at some point.

Doctor Who fandom: bigger on the inside.

[(Anonymous)]

Personally I think it is one of the charms of the show, but his is also why I find it inexplicably hilarious when fan, especially Classic Who fans, get really butthurt about canon. I mean, even canon doesn't care about canon all that much and it's even worse in Classic Who!

[fenm]

The bulk of the story was the Doctor searching for his father, a Time Lord named Ulysses, and the revelation that his mother was a woman from Earth. Also, the Master was his brother, and Borusa (High Chancellor of the Time Lords) the Doctor's grandfather. And the Master created the Daleks.

...

[brain explodes]

[queelez]

Yyyyeaaah. I mean, I unironically love the movie and all of its faults, but that would have been way, way too much.

(though personally I don't really see the problem with the Doctor being half-human? *shrug*)

[fenm]

My issue with it is that I love the idea that he likes and helps Humans just... because. Making him half-Human gives him a personal connection with Humans and makes him helping us feel less altruistic.

[(Anonymous)]

This is my issue with it too.

Actually, one of my favorite short-fics is partially about how the Doctor fell in love with humans that's exactly what happened in canon, but with the perspective of an old man looking back: http://www.whofic.com/viewstory.php?sid=43724

[intrigueing]

Yeah, exactly this! And I like that he has a special soft spot for humans just 'cause too. Because of random events. Because of accidents. Because of coincidences. Because of Ian and Barbara. The way real people accidentally develop preferences. Not for some ~big fundamental reason~ linked to his identity and predestined for him.

[diabolicalfiend]

I both like and dislike it, I dislike it for the reason you say (and it feels like a cheap trick and I so hate cheap tricks) and I like it for how it means in respect for his relationship with the Time Lords. Of course he ended up renegade and empathising with the other, he was an outcast from the start.

Which actually, if you think, would lead him to resent humanity. Because everyone he's met tells him they're primitive monsters and he's part primitive monster, so when he encounters Babs and Ian, of course he's going to be a JACKASS to them and then he discovers that maybe, they're all right and starts to celebrate that part of him a bit?

[intrigueing]

Well, see, I get the logic, but I like that he was an outcast NOT because he was ~half-human~, not because other Time Lords didn't accept him, not because he had an inferiority complex, but because he didn't accept other Time Lords and their boring, stuck-up, rigid society.

He was an outcast just because he was himself. Because he wanted to explore. Because he couldn't stand the status quo. Because he stood up all on his own and said they were full of bullshit even though he had no personal stake in it and no one was pushing him to. Because his personality was that of a renegade, because he was the type of person who would steal an antique time machine he barely knew how to fly so that he could see the universe. Not because he was fundamentally different from other Time Lords, not because he had an identity crisis, not because he was driven out because there were things about himself he couldn't control, but just because he just dared to think and act differently from societal norms and say "well, fuck you very much, you're not going to make me change my mind".

For me, him being an outcast because he was fundamentally different would really cheapen him as a character. It would have the message that it's okay to act different if you are different, but it wouldn't have the message that it's okay to act different just because you damn well please, and it's the latter message that really resonates with me.

[(Anonymous)]

I think that's lazy thinking. He's not a rebel 'just because he can' that's not a motivation. You're trying to say he's the only self aware person on the planet?

And what are you saying 'stand up to them'? When he was Six? Because that was just a speech about how corrupt they were. Then he left. I'm sure they were burnt by that. Or are you talking about when Eight/Nine activated the Time Lock? That was long after his renegade status and at the end of a war, his alleged humanity was neither here nor there?

If you're taking about One. He ran away because he was scared. He tells Ian and Barbara as much. That's not in any definition of 'standing up' that I've ever heard. I doubt any humanity in him would have caused the Time Lords to frighten him out, if you really want to romanticise him, it's likely the politicians saw him as a threat.

[intrigueing]

Not the "only" self-aware person, just a somewhat rare one. And...er...why is that not a motivation? "I don't care for my society's ways" seems as good a motivation as any. It's not overly specific and it's the one that consistently fits him best. Simple =/= lazy.

And...uh, I think you're reading my comment wrong. I meant "standing up to them" for himself, as in not just going along with their way of life even though he didn't like it, and not wanting to be like the rest of them (yes, I was thinking of Six). Not as in taking them down or fighting them or something like that.

On second thought, "standing up" to them was a bad choice of words on my part. "Rejecting" them would have been better.

[kittenmommy]

(Fun fact: Christopher Lloyd was so close to playing the Master, and the studio's first three choices for the Doctor were Harrison Ford, Tom Hanks, and Jim Carrey).

Thank God Almighty that this mess never came to fruition! D:

[queelez]

Hah, yeah. Apparently, Ford didn't want to work in television, Hanks was a fan of the show and went "shit no, he should be British," and Carrey had no clue what Doctor Who was.

And come on, Christopher Lloyd as the Master would have been incredible.

[kittenmommy]

Hanks was a fan of the show and went "shit no, he should be British,"

I utterly adore him for this.

And come on, Christopher Lloyd as the Master would have been incredible.

Yes. John Lithgow would've been good, too. LOL