[ SECRET POST #2230 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2230 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Early because blizzard, not quite sure if power will last.

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 103 secrets from Secret Submission Post #319.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[despatch_boxing]

Everything and everyone is inherently selfish.

The difference is that having kids is applied selfishness rather than pure selfishness--it's extending your sense of self to the living being you've produced, and hence extending your selfishness to cover them too.

[velvet_mace]

Ugh. My problem with this is that it reduces selfishness to a meaningless concept.

[despatch_boxing]

No, it really doesn't.

There are still unselfish acts, plenty of them. But having and raising a child is not one of them.

[(Anonymous)]

Most people mean selfishness as a way that excludes the feelings of others. Regardless of their opinion or feelings, and often to the detriment of it. While it has a second definition, that's not how people are using it.

[despatch_boxing]

Yes, but to most parents, the child is not 'others'. Parents can still exclude the feelings of others (and many are especially prone to it as a result of having a child) but the child doesn't fall into that category because it's an extension of self.

[(Anonymous)]

Parents who treat their children as extensions of themselves are not good parents. Unfortunately, we've recently had a couple generations of parents who have approached their children in that way, and so it seems to many as if it is the only way. But it shouldn't be, and it's not.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think so. There's ways you can make that bad, but if the way you treat yourself is to make sure you are healthy and happy, that's not bad. If you mean you think parents who don't think of kids as their own individual being with thoughts and feelings, I see that, but to me, it's natural to treat family members as an extension of yourself. I think of it as a big compliment--you're as important to me as I am. Your breath means as much to me as my heartbeat.

[diet_poison]

If the end result of seeing kids as an extension of yourself were only "this means I'll take perfect care of them" that would be one thing. But I think it's detrimental because it takes away the kid's right to be an autonomous person. People who live through their children and don't have any lives of their own are, in my opinion, bad parents. Also, you can take very good care of your child and love them as much as you love yourself while still seeing your child as a discrete entity in every way.

[(Anonymous)]

As I said, I see the two as being separate: there's "this thing is my toy, and only worth to me what it can do for me", and there's "this person is as precious to me as myself; hurting it would hurt myself", equating their happiness with yours, etc.

[diet_poison]

I guess I define "extension of self" a little differently? The latter isn't really "extension of self" to me. But I mean that's just kind of getting pedantic. I don't think we disagree :)

[(Anonymous)]

It depends what we mean by "extension of self".

If I mean that I exert/expect total control over my kids personalities/abilities/wants/desires/ext. then yeah, I'm a shitty parent.

If I mean that I consider them to be autonomous but equally important to me as I am then that's fine. (Like, you expand your idea of self to cover your family, but don't expect to control/own them.)

[diet_poison]

I guess I see "I see my child as autonomous" as being completely non-compatible with "I see my child as an extension of myself". Like I said to the anon above, it's getting pedantic. I don't really get what you mean by "expand your idea of self" but I think we're more or less in agreement. Loving and protecting your family as much as you do yourself is a good thing; viewing your children as mere accessories to yourself is not.

[(Anonymous)]

angry childfree person, amirite?

having kids is not a selfish or unselfish act. it's natural. we evolved to want to eat, socialize, and have children. me eating a hamburger isn't selfish. me having kids isn't selfish inherently.

sure, if I have kids solely because I want a friend, maybe. having a child because you want to/feel ready to be a parent is not. but omg I cannot with how annoying this whole thread is, clearly the people bitching have not been parents. you find out pretty quick being selfish doesn't go far when you're a parent, you've got to donate your life to them, when the honeymoon period weighs out shit don't end (literally).