[ SECRET POST #2230 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2230 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Early because blizzard, not quite sure if power will last.

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 103 secrets from Secret Submission Post #319.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Here's an activity: go to an old folk's home and talk to the people there. Find out if they have children and ask them how often their children visit.

They wouldn't be at an old folk's home if not, eh? They'd be at their home or at their kids.

That aside, having children with the assumption that said child will care for you when you are older is selfish. You can't argue with that one. You've proven my point that having children does nothing but benefit the parents themselves.

I don't know if you're anon I replied to, but that was directly in response to saying there's no practical reasons for having kids any more. I pointed out there were, and then continued with another thread.

No, it's delusional. The reality is that life is not happy, warm, or comfortable.

I'm sorry, you've lived more than one life? Maybe mine as been happy, warm, and comfortable and I could see that my kid's would be too. Who gives a shit whether yours wasn't or not?

Life is full of pain and hardship and suffering - bringing a child into this world, no matter how well you think you can care for them and make their life perfect, is a harmful act.

No, it's not. There is no morality in question with it. They did not exist previously, so their state of being was neither good nor bad. That they exist now is neither good nor bad. Some circumstances can be, but that's it.

And regardless, some people have delightful lives. The huge majority of people are happy to be alive.

Not understanding this is naive and grossly detrimental. Not to mention, you've started your reasoning with, "I want..." - is that not an aspect of selfishness, desiring something for yourself?

"I want to donate all of my money to charity, giving only to other people and taking nothing for myself". Look at allllll of that selfishness in that sentence that started with "I want".

I would ask you to explain to me, then, why people who choose not to have children are often called "selfish."

Some people call them selfish. As someone pointed out below, you're saying that you don't want to have a kid because you like your free time and what not is a selfish reason in your standards. It's not by mine, but in yours it is. Because you're thinking about your emotions and what makes you happy.

But as I can see from your final sentence, this is basically just childfree garbage and a general hate of parents and parenting. Be free then, I don't care.

[dreemyweird]

I don't fully agree with either of you, but I'd like to note that

Maybe mine as been happy, warm, and comfortable and I could see that my kid's would be too. Who gives a shit whether yours wasn't or not?

this is illogical? Because your kid is a different person and you can't know whether their life will be happy or not. You may do everything in your power and still get a very unhappy person. Shit happens.

Omg, it seems that I set childfree/parenting wank astir. Not my intention, tbh.

[(Anonymous)]

My point is that it was really bizarre to say "Life is evil evil evil evil", as if someone has had more than one life and can determine whether that's the truth or not. You can use your childhood and experiences to guess, but I can't believe anyone would just say life IS evil and IS suffering, as opposed to having elements of both for some people.

[dreemyweird]

True (perhaps they're a troll or worded poorly or are just very bitter), this, of course, depends on the person. Although this ambiguity is precisely what confuses and depresses me in the matter. It's like playing Russian roulette with a future child x_x

[diet_poison]

But as I can see from your final sentence, this is basically just childfree garbage and a general hate of parents and parenting. Be free then, I don't care. parents and parenting. Be free then, I don't care.

They had me at "bringing a child into this world, no matter how well you think you can care for them and make their life perfect, is a harmful act. Not understanding this is naive and grossly detrimental". Being childfree is one thing, judging others for wanting to have children makes them no better than the people who call them "selfish" for not wanting any.

(Seriously, can't everyone just grow up about this topic? Some people have kids. Some don't. IT'S OKAY.)

[dreemyweird]

I know it must be OK, but I have weird feelings about it.

Like, one knows that there's some risk of their child being unhappy, and they decide to take this risk, and this is where my chain of reasoning goes awry, because they take a risk for their child? Who's going to be an actual living person and experience all the consequences of that choice?

That being said, I most certainly do not support the idea of stopping all the reproduction. Apart from being totalitarian, it is plainly horrifying. The world would become such a mess.

[(Anonymous)]

There's also a chance that their child might grow up to have a fantastic life and be happy all their days, though. Wtf is this "EVERYTHING IS GONNA BE AWFUL AND LET'S JUST ASSUME THAT THE WORST WILL OCCUR" attitude, idgi. So maybe you had a shit life. That doesn't mean that everyone has or will, and it doesn't mean that your ENTIRE life will be that way. My gosh. Occasionally something positive happens in the world, you know. I do want to say that my dad has the exact attitude that you do, bar "having kids is bad", and it made the rest of us miserable because he was ALWAYS determined to see the bad side of life and ignore the good, which, amazingly enough, actually turned out to exist. It does no one any good to assume that everything is terrible. Take precautions to guard against bad stuff? Expect that SOME bad stuff will happen? Sure, not doing that is stupid. Expecting that ALL THE BAD STUFF will happen, and trying to convince everyone else that it's dumb to think otherwise? That's ridiculous.

[dreemyweird]

But I didn't say anything like that? I was talking about a risk not about a certainty.

...and I'm trying to convince no one

...I feel like you confused the threads (maybe you wanted to reply to this anon above?)

Plus it's really ridiculous that your dad has this kind of attitude. Because he is your dad. He's doin' childfree ideology wrong.

[diet_poison]

woah, you just unleashed a lot of unwarranted rage there 0_0

[diet_poison]

hmm, I don't know. That's actually maybe not something I've thought of super hard because I've given a lot of consideration to having an adoptive family (I know for sure I want kids one day). But it's an interesting question. I think my spiritual beliefs would play into the answer for me, tbh.

Also, even though I've had some really rough times in my life, and there are times I would say I wished I were dead/hadn't been born, overall I'm very happy that my parents decided to have me. I rather like being alive.

[(Anonymous)]

That's really nice for you.

But parents still willingly take the risk of their child being unhappy as fuck with being born, and in the end, it's the child that has to deal with that.

I think it's okay to be a parent, but it's a huge responsibility. You're taking a huge risk for another person, and you owe it to that other person to minimise that risk any way you can.

[diet_poison]

I think it's okay to be a parent, but it's a huge responsibility. You're taking a huge risk for another person, and you owe it to that other person to minimise that risk any way you can.

I can get on board with this. And to be clear I don't think you should have kids unless you can provide for them and take care of them.

[(Anonymous)]

You realize that's an ideal right?

The sort of demographic that shouldn't have kids for this reason are the very ones who do. The poor and uneducated and ignorant add to crowding overpopulation.

This is a 3rd world problem.

[diet_poison]

Yes, I realize that is ideal. It's also ideal to say that nobody should be in poverty or uneducated, but it would still be a good thing and people are working towards that goal.

[(Anonymous)]

yyyeah so the above ragy post was a misfire, sry to have hit the wrong commenter

[stormy1x2]

Here's an activity: go to an old folk's home and talk to the people there. Find out if they have children and ask them how often their children visit.

They wouldn't be at an old folk's home if not, eh? They'd be at their home or at their kids.

Oh my god, what bubble fairy land do you live in? I had to go and visit my grandmother's siblings in their old age home and there were LOTS of elderly people stopping by their room while we were there, so lonely for company but their own families never visited. They TOLD us this.

There are plenty of selfish brats in the world (by that I mean full-grown adult ones) who don't give a dam about the people who brought them into this world or anyone other than themselves.

Have kids, don't have them, I don't care, but please don't assume just because you have kids, you're going to be taken care of. If that were the case, old folks homes wouldn't exist in the sheer numbers they currently DO.

[(Anonymous)]

It's not selfish not to want to see your parents in their old age (or ever).

[stormy1x2]

Fair enough. I just don't like the blanket statement that having kids automatically means you'll have someone taking care of you. That's one of the first things that gets thrown at childfree people - who will support you?

The idea that there are no sad, lonely elderly people in old folks homes because their kids stuck them there is ridiculous. The comment was made that if they had kids they wouldn't be there. RIDICULOUS. That's all I want to say.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm alwas a little startled at this vision of elderly people waiting for their families to visit - my grandma really perked up noticably once she got out of her flat and into a professional care facility, among other things because she enjoyed all the group activities offered there.

I'm guessing that really depends on the kind of home you get sent to.

[stormy1x2]

very true. I guess it also has to do with how much of it is your decision to make, and how much of it is 'we have decided for you that'....

My grandmother's 'sister' wasn't completely gone but she retained enough to cry whenever she realized she wasn't in her home. A nurse had to be with her all the time to reassure her she wasn't abandoned, even though my aunt tried to visit 3x a week.

It's horrifyingly sad and I sincerely hope I'm gone long before I deteriorate to that extent.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, you COULD read anything else I've said on the matter, but it's hard to read so high on your horse.