[ SECRET POST #2233 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2233 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 054 secrets from Secret Submission Post #319.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: AGREE

[(Anonymous)]

...yeah, I was just thinking that. The "well-written canon gay and lesbian characters" amount to gay men who pretty much hit every flamboyant gay male stereotype in the books (one is even great at styling hair, ffs) and a woman who dresses like a man and makes frequent passes at Alexia, whose brilliancy somehow fails to pick up on the fact that 1) a woman is making a really unsubtle pass at her and 2) the manner in which it's made is unacceptable, it doesn't if it's a lesbian doing it. #2 bugs me most of all, because when the same stuff happens involving a man making a pass, Alexia shuts down that BS right away. When the lesbian character does it, she's mostly just... naively perplexed and uncomfortable? WTF.


Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the books. They're delicious brain candy. I like Lord Akeldama's character despite the fact that it's not terribly original-- although I find him most interesting when we get glimpses beneath the superficial mask-- but ALL of the gay/lesbian characters are stereotypes. I suspect that fandom's just so happy seeing gay/lesbian characters that they're willing to give lack of originality a pass... for now.

ayrt

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed on the books being delicious brain candy. I even like Lefoux and Akeldama and Biffy and feel for them when bad things happen... they just aren't really all that progressive. It sounds like there's a lot more bisexuals running around as secondary and tertiary characters, for what it's worth, I guess.

When the lesbian character does it, she's mostly just... naively perplexed and uncomfortable? WTF
And slightly receptive to it, like she's somewhat bi-curious, but hasn't let herself think about it, even know about her father's sexcapades. At worst (imo) it comes off like the author's trying to clear Alexia's not bigoted or even necessarily close-minded but omg she's totally straight don't forget!! Kinda like her weight, that sparked this thread: lots of little words dropped in to make you think she might be anything other than an Amazonian centerfold, but none of it goes anywhere on closer inspection.

...there's a lot of nuance that these books could use, I think. But I don't think the books even take themselves seriously since the tone seems to be predominantly Victorian-novel/Regency-comedy-of-manners satire, so that's not so bad either.

Re: ayrt

[(Anonymous)]

The cynical side of me thinks that this is a great way to score points for being progressive and enlightened regarding gay/lesbian characters and plus-sized heroines, but without taking any real risks. It doesn't mean the series is terrible or anything, but I'm skeptical when people paint it as though it's a victory for groups who ordinarily get little to no representation in popular fiction.

That might've passed as edgy fifteen or twenty years ago, but these days I think we should expect more than a few well-worn stereotypes.

Re: AGREE

[(Anonymous)]

Can I ask your opinion on Professor Lyall? I totally agree that most of the gay and lesbian characters are stereotypes, but he was a prominent and multi-faceted character who didn't seem to fit any kind of stereotype (in many facets, including as a werewolf).

Re: AGREE

[(Anonymous)]

Prof. Lyall is one of the promising characters, but it doesn't seem like Carriger's done much with him yet? I don't know if this criticism makes sense, but it seems me that he's very competent, reliable and a key figure in some of the plots, but... not in a dynamic way. I haven't read the last book of the series, but the most I know about him is that he's a solid Beta, someone who doesn't look impressive but is more than he seems. Carriger emphasizes that a lot, but I'd be happier if he took a more active role rather than being the back-up man or clean-up-peoples'-messes guy.

But he's a far better character than Madame LeFoux, whose personality feels very slapdash and thrown together.