[ SECRET POST #2236 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2236 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.
[Inda series]


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02.
[Les Miserables and Discworld]

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03.
[Three Kingdoms 2010, Legend of Chu and Han]


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04.



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05.
[DBSK]


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06.
[The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (Shivering Isles)]


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07.


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08.


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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]













09. [SPOILERS for ]

[Umineko no Naku Koro Ni]


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10. [SPOILERS for Supernatural]



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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]














11. [WARNING for rape]



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12. [possible warning for sexual assault (as I'm sure the thread will contain discussion of it)]



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13. [WARNING for abuse]



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14. [WARNING for rape, abuse, etc]



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15. [WARNING for suicide]



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16. [WARNING for eating disorders]



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17. [WARNING for rape/non-con]

[Homestuck]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #319.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fauxkaren]

I don't think it's intentional sexism.

But it is disturbing how GRRM uses rape as a plot point or how he uses it as short hand for "things are bad and scary!"

I especially hate how he uses it as a plot point for male character. E.G. Tysha's rape is all about Tyrion.

GRRM does do a good job with his female characters in general, but the way he handle's rape in the series is one of my major issues with it.

[sugar_spun]

I think they realized that for the show, because they omitted Tyrion raping her entirely, and made it seem like Tyrion could have confused the situation for her actually being willing for the money.

I approve, since at least in the books you'd almost think that's what he thought given how few shits he seemed to have about her being brutally, brutally raped. I think GRRM didn't mean for it to come off as 'why me!' as much as it did.

[yeahscience]

Huh? In the books, he did believe she was willing for the money until Jaime told him the truth. They haven't changed that storyline yet.

[sugar_spun]

Hm...are you positive it's explicitly said? I just remember Tyrion talking about how she was passed around, not that she was willing to be. And I imagine, realistically, she must have been in tears and very afraid.

[yeahscience]

I guess not, but it's pretty heavily implied that his father made him believe she was willing. He certainly doesn't think of himself as having raped her.

[sugar_spun]

Which was actually my issue--I took that to be sort of thoughtless writing on GRRM's part.

I can see your point though.

[grainne_mhaol]

I was convinced for four and a half books that Tyrion had massive PTSD and denial issues over Tysha's gangrape and his own part in it as both rapist and victim. He seemed to get stuck in mental loops unable to process the memories properly. Then theres his confused/damaged attitude to Shae.

At the end of ASOS/beginning of DWD he was finally forced to confront the reality of Tysha's victimhood. For the first time he gets past some of the cognitive dissonance and starts thinking about Tyasha's trauma - not just his own - and the absolute horror of what was done to her. And his brain gets stuck on "where do whores go".

So I never thought he really believed she was willing. Just that his brain had erected many bad defense mechanisms to keep from dealing with things.

(OTOH I thought where that was going was that Tyrion would straighten out his attitude to whores and his white knight complex would grow into proper empathy. Instead he deals with it by committing another rape - this time uncoerced - and lost my sympathy forever, so now I wonder if I just read too much into it all.)

[yeahscience]

Actually, I think that's a really interesting interpretation. I'm definitely not trying to excuse Tyrion's actions when I say he didn't know -- I just think it kind of, IDK, diminishes his storyline to imply that he was active and aware from the beginning when so much of his story is about confronting his own history. But I really like the idea that he was pretty much just straight up in denial/prey to his own defense mechanisms and that rather than grow from confronting them, he totally backslid.

[(Anonymous)]

It's sad how a LOT of mainstream authors seem to use rape as a "bad stuff happens!" plot device.

[fenm]

Agreed Especially when:

1. When it's only ever done to women. Because THAT'S realistic, right? Men never get raped, right?

And/or

2. The rape is the back story for a male relative of a female rape victim who we never meet. Like, a guy goes the jail for killing his daughter's/wife's/sister's rapist or something. The women's reactions to and feelings about her rape are completely irrelevant, it's all about MANPAIN over "a woman I love got raped, WAH!".

Ya know, I'm trying to think of a case where a woman getting raped is the back story for a FEMALE relative. Oddly, I can't think of it; probably because most writers just cut to the chase and have the woman herself get raped.

[(Anonymous)]

Tysha's rape is all about Tyrion because we see it through Tyrion's eyes. Tyrion is the POV character we know. If Tysha was the POV character we know, we'd see the event through her eyes.

Similarily: we see Cersei's abuse at Robert's hands through Cersei's eyes, it's about her and not about him - because Cersei is a POV character and Robert isn't. We also see Daenerys' marriage with Drogo through her eyes, not through his.

While there are of course issues with how GRRM handles rape, I really don't think this is a good example. Of course we see what happens through the eyes of the POV characters, not through the eyes of side characters from their past.

[(Anonymous)]

You realize that you are comparing apples and oranges, right?

Cersei's abuse is done TO HER, as his Dany's rape. Tysha's rape, otoh, is portrayed as something that is done TO TYRION. That's why people have problems with it.

[(Anonymous)]

Tyasha is a pawn in the game of thrones, and a disposable commoner woman, whereas Cersei and Dany hold power through their bloodlines, albeit not power that they're meant to be wielding by themselves.

That the abuse of the commoner gets transferred into the humiliation of a noble man and that Tyasha's ordeal isn't accredited to her anyway is a failing of the writing, and I wouldn't attempt to defend him of that.