[ SECRET POST #2239 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2239 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[Elementary]


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03.
[Pokemon]


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04.
[Noah, Power Rangers MegaForce]


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05.
[Mass Effect]


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06.
[Resident Evil]


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07.
[Medaka Box]


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08.
[Shameless]


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09.
[Star Trek 2009]


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10.
[Dreamwork's Sinbad, Avengers, American Gods, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic
Batman, Gunnerkrigg Court, Grim Adventures, Trickster's Choice/Queen]


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11.
[American Dad]


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12.
[Laurell K. Hamilton]


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13.
[my neighbour totoro]


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14.
[Medaka Box]


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15.
[Downton Abbey]


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16.
[The Red Panda, Black Jack Justice]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 080 secrets from Secret Submission Post #320.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[sugar_spun]

Yeah, I don't exactly approve of the whole 'loud-mouthed aggressive masculine woman must be the gay or bi one'. Since there really weren't any gay options in ME2, I can't say that BioWare purposefully avoided that trope, but yeah, making the presumption that a woman like Jack was supposed to be bi or gay because she just fit your stereotype of bi or gay women is pretty shitty, especially when she did rather indicate that she was straight.

[owen_in_boots]

Maybe I'm remembering wrong since I found it really unpleasant to talk with her most of the time, but didn't she mention she was bi-sexual? Or at least at one point in time had slept with a woman? Doesn't mean she wants to continue down that route (obviously, since you could only romance her as a male Shep), but it's at least a decent point to make to maybe ease the guilt of the OP.

[sugar_spun]

No, she mentions that she was forced to sleep with a guy and his girlfriend and she didn't like it. Later she expresses to Shepard she doesn't swing for that team when she thinks you're hitting on her. Or, rather, something about not being in that 'girls club'. Here.

[(Anonymous)]

She doesn't mention if she was forced or whether she liked it.

[sugar_spun]

"When I was starting out, I ran with this girl Manara and her boyfriend. They knew their way around. I thought they would help me. Right. They helped me into their bed..."

That's a very strong implication that she was raped. First, because when she was 'starting out', was when she was a little girl. Now, it could be that she spent years as a slave, but I doubt that, since she doesn't mention she did. I can't see her being older than thirteen at that point.

Couple that with the fact Jack clearly juxtaposes one idea, "I thought they would help me", with another, "they helped me into their bed", which obviously implies the bed part and the helping part didn't mix. She didn't want to sleep with them.

The link I gave showed her also strongly implying she was not into women.

[(Anonymous)]

That really is only your interpretation you know that.

[sugar_spun]

Well, I understand that if you have a really poor grasp of the English language or REALLY REALLY REALLY want to believe Jack is possibly bi or gay, yeah.

You'll notice there's no similar line in place for ManShep at this instance. And you'll notice that despite the fact Shepard is literally the EXACT same person male or female, and Jack isn't exactly subtle about the things she likes or sex or anything about it, she doesn't pursue or flirt with Shepard even a little.

You are taking delusion pills if you think otherwise, sorry.

[(Anonymous)]

Where did I start talking about whether or not Jack was bisexual? It's nice that you belief that your interpretation is THE ONLY TRUTH and everyone thinking different must be a delusional foreigner or desperate. Lovely.

[sugar_spun]

I presumed that is what you were arguing.

Regardless, yes, you would have to not understand the language to interpret that sentence any other way than "I did not want/enjoy having sex with them". Yes, it's THE ONLY TRUTH. That's simply how the sentence is constructed. If I said "I don't like cheescake", you can't argue that I actually DO like cheesecake, because what if I didn't mean for that "don't" to be in there, huh?

The wording of the sentence so so SO strongly implies I think it's better to say it directly states it.

[(Anonymous)]

A bit offtopic. Been a while since I played ME2, but doesn't she at one point casually say something like, "If you mean boyfriends or girlfriends..." I don't know, just the way she said it gave me the impression that she swung both ways and she was totally fine with it, then she does a complete 180 and straps a neon get-your-vag-out-of-here sign on her head. Not going to argue about whether or not she was forced into the bed of the couple (though personally it sounds like they earned her trust, welcomed her into their bed and then betrayed her), just saying it seemed like she was bi.

[(Anonymous)]

no, i think it's pretty clear from that line that she didn't enjoy it, and this is coming from someone who has never even played the games.

"I thought they would help me." = she wanted them to help her

"Right. They helped me into their bed..." = except they didn't help her, they did something that she clearly isn't pleased about

it's not "interpretation" to point out what is explicitly being said.

[(Anonymous)]

"except they didn't help her, they did something that she clearly isn't pleased about"

Yes, because they ended up betraying her. That is the punchline. She ran with them, she had sex with them, they betrayed her.

[(Anonymous)]

Know what's more annoying? Loud-mouthed, aggressive masculine woman reveals herself to be a weepy, whiny girly girl on the inside after being sufficiently pounded by healing penis.

[sugar_spun]

And it would somehow be better if it were FemShep? I'll point out that Jack is similarly 'healed' by Shepard's friendship, male or female. I think it would have been more appropriate to forgo the sex, actually, but still.

And I'll point out that you actually just called someone who has been raped and enslaved and tortured for her entire life as "whiny" and "weepy", as if these are inappropriate responses to the extreme trauma of her life. That was literally her only moment of weakness. In ME3 she's actually a very together person.

[(Anonymous)]

Hardly, but if they were going with that dumb cliche, they might as well have let it go both ways.

da

[(Anonymous)]

She isn't a person, she's a fictional character. Which means she isn't responding to trauma, she's being written a certain way to evoke a certain reaction from the audience. And that way's very linked to an unfortunate stereotype: the bitter, damaged woman who merely needs the love of a good man to soften her up and heal her.

Speaking on the stereotypical behavior of a character in fiction is no more akin to berating an actual rape victim for their trauma response than complaining about the heavily-sexualized costumes of female superheroes is to shaming an actual woman for wearing a short skirt. Criticizing media tropes, especially harmful ones, isn't a bad thing.

Re: da

[sugar_spun]

But the issue is that you can 'heal' her by being her male and female friend. Jack didn't need someone to fix her aggressiveness or anything, she needed someone she felt she could trust and who wouldn't betray her. When you see her in ME3, she's still basically the same person, just a lot more adjusted and more rational.

I said somewhere in this thread that the scene would have gone a lot better if they just talked, but even though they didn't I feel like the other points I made assuage that.

[(Anonymous)]

Since Bioware in the same game brought us Morinth the evil sexual predator, and Kelly the empty-headed horny puppydog, both of whom are bisexual, I sincerely doubt they were deliberately avoiding unpleasant stereotypes. The way the romance with Jack played out, it seems more likely they were just indulging dudeShep players' healing cock fantasies.

[sugar_spun]

Kelly is not empty-headed. She's a very skilled and intuitive psychologist, as well as a very competent secretary and yeoman. She accurately guesses moods and feelings from the crew as well as correctly indicating when you should talk to someone and for what reasons.

She likes to flirt with Shepard she believes in free love, and this, to you, is emptyheaded horny puppydog? Jeez.

I'll give you Morinth, but Samara is bisexual and declines romance or sex for duty. It's the foil between the two that BioWare concerns with. Kelly is someone who likes sex and is a positive, smart person.

There's also Samantha Taylor from the next game, who is competent and likable.

[(Anonymous)]

Kelly was completely incompetent at reading people, which is why she worked for Cerberus. If she knew what she was doing, she would never have worked for them.

[sugar_spun]

Which would make Shep incompetent too. And Miranda and Jacob. And your whole crew for following you.

[(Anonymous)]

Samantha Traynor. And she's a lesbian. If you're going to have fits over people mischaracterizing the sexuality of fictional characters, you probably shouldn't do it yourself.

[sugar_spun]

I didn't.