[ SECRET POST #2239 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2239 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[Elementary]


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03.
[Pokemon]


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04.
[Noah, Power Rangers MegaForce]


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05.
[Mass Effect]


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06.
[Resident Evil]


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07.
[Medaka Box]


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08.
[Shameless]


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09.
[Star Trek 2009]


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10.
[Dreamwork's Sinbad, Avengers, American Gods, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic
Batman, Gunnerkrigg Court, Grim Adventures, Trickster's Choice/Queen]


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11.
[American Dad]


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12.
[Laurell K. Hamilton]


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13.
[my neighbour totoro]


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14.
[Medaka Box]


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15.
[Downton Abbey]


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16.
[The Red Panda, Black Jack Justice]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 080 secrets from Secret Submission Post #320.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[truxillogical]

Word.

I don't really see the Joker as a Chaotic Trickster, though. I mean, he is about Chaos, but there's something lacking in the Trickster terms. I don't know why, maybe it's the sheer malice to him (which is stupid, most of those other characters are plenty malicious, but Tricksters are always supposed to be Both Good And Evil, really).

That said, I just finished the Loki arc of Journey into Mystery and...dude, that guy did some serious chaos and trickery. The whole run was just refreshing as hell to read because it's the first time in a long time I've seen a Trickster character who was really, seriously cunning, and juggling about fifty different schemes and motivations at any given time.

[taotrooper]

Maybe it's because I'm a bit of a myth nerd, but I find it pretty baffling when evil troll characters all get promoted to tricksters just because they pull tricks. The archetype is way more complicated than do crap to people for the lulz. They're agents of change, both culture heroes and crazy villains, they help while they're still selfish, they create and destroy. I'd never put folks like the Joker in the trickster table. Too extreme evil, like you say.

Man, I really want to write this long essay on how not only Kid Loki is the purest handbook trickster from all the Marvel Lokis, but also how that run is just one of the best modern stories starred by a trickster I've read. And I try to read/watch plenty of those.

[truxillogical]

Exactly. Heck, even in Norse mythology (or what we have of it), Loki's actions read as "evil" but are 99% about bringing down the haughty or supplying some kind of balance via chaos.

And so much yes to your second paragraph. It seems like everyone and their brother (myself included) wants to write a "trickster" story, or a "trickster" character, but most of them just use some variant of "s/he's wacky and random and untrustworth--ta-DA!" But the writing on JiM just blew me away, because every time I'd turn the page, something would surprise me. Every time I thought I had Loki figured out, he twisted. And the whole time, he still stayed true to a central characterization. Also, the dialogue is just gorgeous, from the epic and poetic to wacky and childish.

[taotrooper]

I wouldn't say that myth!Loki's actions are eeeeeeeevil, though. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm woobiefying him, but it's just right at the end when he truly goes against the gods and gets really destructive. In many stories, he's just doing what he wants or amending his own messes, and in most he even helps around. He was Odin's BFF (Odin himself is a piece of work) and Thor's odd buddy before Baldergate, after all. He still is a selfish loser douchecanoe; that never changed and that's how we love -or hate?- him.

I adore that comic so damn much. It broke my heart in pieces, but fuck if it didn't do it with style and a lot of feeling. It was one hell (no pun intended) of a ride.

[truxillogical]

Ack, I wrote that badly.

Loki was one of my childhood heroes actually. I mean that without woobification--I just remember being very young and reading the tale of How Thor Got His Hammer, or whatever you want to call it, right on the heels of reading a boatload of Anansi stories, and...yeah, kid me looked up to the clever ones (but also liked the idea that you couldn't get out 100% unscathed).

I meant more his actions are usually "supposed" to be read as evil. I've heard that when the myths got writ down proper, Loki got a bit more villain-ified to keep in line with the Christian mentality--there is Good and there is Evil, something that jives less with the Norse mythos of "this guy's in charge but he's kind of a dick. So's that one. Really, they're all a bag of dicks. Her? She's inSANE."

Loki's a classic trickster in that he is lazy and greedy, but not usually bad. He did get Baldir killed, though. And then marched in and aired everyone's dirty laundry like Springer.


I wasn't expecting to like the comic as much as I did, because fandom's reaction seemed to imply that Everything Was Terrible at the end, and it was all for nothing and...I didn't get that feeling. Plus, it was such a fun ride.

[(Anonymous)]

The archetype is way more complicated than do crap to people for the lulz. They're agents of change, both culture heroes and crazy villains, they help while they're still selfish, they create and destroy. I'd never put folks like the Joker in the trickster table. Too extreme evil, like you say.

This, so much this.

Mind, when I'm pointing to a modern version of a Trickster, I point at Q from Star Trek. Omnipotent, cruel, petty, a touch buffoonish, but also brave when pushed, and his actions overall cause more good than harm, despite being cruel and unusual at the time. An agent of balance through chaos, and explicitly in counterpoint to the more rigidly ordered pantheon that is the Continuum (and the Federation, really).

TV tropes describes what he does as 'obfuscating villainy', disguising change through cruelty, and I think that fits a great many tricksters, really. Though a lot of them are, actually, cruel or evil as well. It's just ... the point of chaos is that is swings in all directions, good and evil and everything between. Because, well, chaos.

[taotrooper]

I've actually debated about watching the TNG episodes with Q at least. I caught like one episode with him once and I digged him. He seems quite fun.

It's funny you mention TV Tropes, because it's what inspired a lot of my little rant above. I went to the Trickster page once for cool series with those to watch/read/play, and instead I find the most insane list of characters raging from Charlie Chaplin's persona to the fucking Joker. That site is now plagued with idiot editors now, so I'm not surprised about your misleading description.