fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2244 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2244 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 121 secrets from Secret Submission Post #321.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

No.

The reason it's not balanced is because the show created a world where people who are homophobic are also torturers and rapists.

No one is saying that the actions of the people in the show, as presented by the show, are acceptable or should not have been condemned. They're obviously fucking horrible. The whole fucking point is that the show presents them as completely and irredeemably horrible, which is unfair to people who are opposed to homosexuality, most of whom are not actually torturers or rapists. "Balance" would mean not making a dramatic choice wherein all people who are opposed to homosexuality are horrible, evil people who kill puppies and rape orphans. Where they are human beings making a variety of choices for a variety of reasons.

I mean, on the most basic level, it's simply more realistic and a more accurate and honest depiction of phenomena, and therefore, I would argue, much more powerful to depict it that way. But, yes, it's also more balanced.

The reason it's not balanced is because the show created a world where people who are homophobic are also torturers and rapists.

Aww, poor homophobes. How many shows and movies created a world where gay people were considered wrong/broken/sick/dysfunctional/deviant/perverts? Far, far, far more than there have been where the homophobes are torturers and rapists. I'm sorry, but I don't feel any sympathy for the homophobes. I just don't.

Like I said above, I realize that not ALL people who are homophobic are also torturers and rapists who kill puppies or rape orphans, and I really don't think the show was trying to say they are. I don't think anyone who watched the episode thought "oh, wow, ALL people who hate gay people are rapists who torture".

unfair to people who are opposed to homosexuality, most of whom are not actually torturers or rapists

So it's ok to hate gay people as long as you don't torture or rape them? I'm sorry, but that's not acceptable to me. Obviously torturing and raping them is far, far worse, but that doesn't make "just" thinking they're less than you or not human or don't deserve the same rights an ok stance to take. I DON'T GIVE A SHIT if something is "unfair to people who are opposed to homosexuality".

not making a dramatic choice wherein all people who are opposed to homosexuality are horrible, evil people who kill puppies and rape orphans. Where they are human beings making a variety of choices for a variety of reasons.

No one is saying they all kill puppies and rape orphans, but I do think they're horrible human beings. Just as I think people opposed to, say, interracial relationships are horrible human beings. OBVIOUSLY not nearly AS horrible as people that actually kill puppies or rape orphans, but still. And maybe I'm being a bit hyperbolic with "horrible", but seriously, if you hate someone for, of all things, loving someone you deem "inappropriate", you are not a nice or good person, and I really don't care if a TV show that makes people like you out to be villains offends you. As for their reasons, I don't care what they are. In this day and age, if you have access to a TV to watch the episode, and an internet connection to whine about the lack of "balance", there's no excuse to remain so astonishingly ignorant, and if you choose to, well, be prepared for people to think you're an asshole.

I just...is it really so controversial to say that being a homophobe is a bad thing? Really? What fucking decade is this?

da

thank you anon, you put it in words way better than I ever could

1) Being a homophobe is a bad thing, but it is a bad thing in a different way from being a rapist or a torturer, and it is not nearly as bad as either of those things.

2) It is not controversial that being a homophobe is a bad thing. It is controversial that creating something in which all homophobes are also racists and murderers is a good idea. There are two main reasons why this is so (note that neither reason is "homophobes are peachy keen and I love them"):

a) It is, in general, really bad practice to create things that make people who are your political opponents out to be one-dimensional caricatures, or to create propaganda which makes them out to be worse than they are. It is a bad idea for a whole host of reasons. In the general sense, it is just really shitty for the political discourse as a whole.

b) In this specific case, making something that is extremely unrealistic makes it both lesser as a work of art and less effective against the homophobes. A nuanced, realistic depiction is more interesting and also actually addresses the reality of homophobia. It's much easier for someone to dismiss something when it makes homophobes out to be cartoonishly evil. It doesn't serve anyone any good.

I'm not saying being a homophobe is okay. I'm saying that being a homophobe is not the same as being a rapist or a torturer, and that homophobes are not actually cartoonishly evil, and it's probably not a good idea to present homophobes as though they actually are universally cartoonishly evil, not because it hurts the feelings of homophobes but because that's not the way we should do things.

I actually think it would've been irresponsible for the show to handle it any other way. I think if they'd had a different homophobic character that was portrayed as non-violent and essentially harmless in the same episode, people woudn't have taken the horror of what went on at the camp as seriously because it would've given homophobic viewers the opportunity to just dismiss the people that ran the camp as fringe lunatics while the "lesser", more "realistic" homophobes who were maybe more like themselves would just reconfirm that their beliefs were ok, because hey, at least they weren't like those "bad" homophobes that tortured gay kids.

If they want to do a future episode about homophobes who are ignorant and misguided but aren't violent, that might be a discussion worth having, but it would've been out of place in this episode and I think would've lessened the impact of this particular story, which was an important one to tell. Those camps are incredibly dangerous, real things that exist and harm real people, and I think that the writers made the right choice in portraying them the way they did. And I don't think they portrayed it as extremely unrealistic as you said, they portrayed it the way it actually happened/is happening in real life, at least as far as I can tell based on all the accounts I've read. And in real life, there aren't always "slightly less bad" bad people to "balance things out".

As for the show presenting ALL homophobes as rapists and torturers, I didn't see it that way. This was a specific storyline where they were, but there have also been countless episodes where people who raped/tortured/killed were people who were abused as children, people whose parents got divorced when they were kids, people whose parents died when they were young, people who cheated on their spouses/significant others, etc. The show is about people who are rapists/torturers/murderers, and people who come from every single background imaginable and are a part of every group/demographic imaginable do those things on the show. I don't think the show is trying to say that ALL people who belong to a specific group or who come from a specific background rape/torture/kill, and I think most people realize that.

And the idea that all people having equal rights is considered a political issue, and therefore the show must be trying to push a "political agenda" or that it's "propaganda", is completely baffling to me. I see it as being about human rights and being a decent person, not any particular set of political beliefs, and I feel like pretending that both sides' opinions are equally valid is doing more harm than good when one side is actively hurting people. I just don't see how this is a difficult issue, at all.

Thank you for getting it.

[ SECRET POST #2244 ]

Re: But won't someone think of the poor homophobes?! RAAAAAAAAAGE

Re: But won't someone think of the poor homophobes?! RAAAAAAAAAGE

Re: But won't someone think of the poor homophobes?! RAAAAAAAAAGE

Re: But won't someone think of the poor homophobes?! RAAAAAAAAAGE

Re: But won't someone think of the poor homophobes?! RAAAAAAAAAGE

Re: But won't someone think of the poor homophobes?! RAAAAAAAAAGE