fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2245

⌈ Secret Post #2245 ⌋

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Notes:

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

The love words said between Otacon and Naomi in MGS4. Now, this isn't character bashing - I love Naomi. But I like her better as a manipulative person who is doing what she must to right a wrong, even if it's awful; and Otacon's love for her was deeply unsettling for me, because I couldn't help but read it as dubcon as it was what he felt for his stepmother.

Seriously, the story would have been so much better if they had shown it ultimately as a fucked up relationship instead of their dramatic parting words via laptop.

It's Otacon, man. I don't think he's allowed to have relationships that aren't at least a bit fucked up. (Naomi included, imo.)

That said, the whole Otacon/Naomi thing makes me roll my eyes. For me it was overkill. (YOU HAD TO GO THERE AGAIN, DIDN'T YOU KOJIMA? DAMN YOU, KOJIMA. DAMN YOU.) Poor Hal...

(I DO like Naomi too, but...yea, I wouldn't say her relationship with Otacon was healthy. Maybe the game DOES want us to think that but if so, it completely flew over my head.)

I hated it :( What I got of it was that Hal was in a very vulnerable moment and went back to a destructive pattern he had grown up from in MGS2. I can understand the character's motivations inside the story for doing that, but not the writer's. It's unneessary as a narrative device, and OOC for both the characters involved (it's a /huge/ step back in Hal's case, and does a lot of disservice to Naomi).

I hate that the game gives it a tragically romantic angle in that scene with the laptop, because it's. not. romantic. She used him, and a posthumous "oops I fell in love with you while screwing you over" does not make it better :/ Of course, Hal being Hal, he wasn't even mad.

For what it's worth, I didn't like it either and don't think it was necessary. (Like he didn't have enough to deal with in that game without the added 'love interest' + death of said love interest.)

I can sorta understand Hal going along with the relationship though, because like you said, he was in an emotionally vulnerable state. (The thing about his Stepmother...and well, Sniper Wolf too, made their whole relationship feel even skeevier. He has a Very Bad past with women and Naomi using him was in no way okay and just fucked him up even more.)

IDK, I think the "Oops I feel in love with you while screwing you over" thing was MEANT to feel gross. Or...maybe not, but that's just the way it turns out considering the situation and the knowledge of Hal's past. He wouldn't be angry about it because by that point Hal is used to being used and can't bring himself to care, and that's what (at least to me) makes it so sad.

*+1 to everything you say*

It's hard to have this discussion without falling into blaming Naomi for everything :( It's just, indeed, Hal's past and the way he deals with it is such an enormous thing about his character. I won't say it was non-con, he is shown (in a very poorly written way) having interest on Naomi before the infamous helicopter scene happened but the timing! And the way it happens!

He was lonely and depressed when everything happens, and then in the helicopter scene he's shown as very insecure at the whole ordeal when Naomi shows an interest in him. He tries to get the fuck away several times, and then he's dragged into the chopper anyway. The way he's tugged inside the chopper was shown as funny, but it wasn't, he was at least being pressured into having sex. And then he "falls in love", which as for MGS2 interpretations, is his way to not put the blame in the other party when he has been abused.

Now, Naomi couldn't have known (all) that. But she did use him. And the writers making her "fall in love" too felt like a cheap way to lessen what she did.

FFF sorry for the TL;DR, I just have a lot of Otacon feels.

Edited 2013-02-25 00:08 (UTC)

Awww, your icon. I really need Otacon and Sunny icons...

And I agree with you on all of that. The main thing the helicopter scene told me was that Otacon didn't look ready for sex and Naomi pushed until he went along with it. He definitely didn't look comfortable with it and it came off awkward and a bit disturbing, not cute or funny.

And then he "falls in love", which as for MGS2 interpretations, is his way to not put the blame in the other party when he has been abused.

Very true... :/

So yea, Naomi couldn't have known his past but that doesn't make what she did to him in the present any less skeevy or wrong.

(Don't apologize for Otacon feels! I've had some lately, too. :p)

[ SECRET POST #2245

Re: Lines you wish you could erase from canon

Re: Lines you wish you could erase from canon

Re: Lines you wish you could erase from canon

Re: Lines you wish you could erase from canon

Re: Lines you wish you could erase from canon

Re: Lines you wish you could erase from canon