fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2259 ]

[ SECRET POST #2259 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2259 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 100 secrets from Secret Submission Post #323.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

TIME TRAVEL? Uhhh...

It's not the first RPG to use time travel and it won't be the last. In fact, one of the most praised games of all time, Chrono Trigger, is all about time travel. So what's your point?

Characters who look nothing like anyone in any of the previous games?

It's called hiring a different character designer and this happens all the time with long-running series'.

but a majority are unnecessarily sexualized, skimpy, don't follow any kind of style (sure, we've had short dresses and thigh highs for ages, but I really don't see how a bra and some kind of transparent fabric over it is okay)

The thing about style is subjective so I won't go there. But the "majority" are not sexualized. I will name every single recruitable character who has a revealing design:

Panne
Yarne
Nowi (admittedly, this is pretty ick)
Tharja
Olivia (what dancer doesn't though?)
Noire
Tiki

So that's...7. Out of 44 characters. That is NOT a majority. And I was being generous with a couple of those.

Fucking beach and swimsuit side plots? Are the devs really that thirsty that they have to include that kind of fanservice?

GRRRR NOOOO I HATE SILLY FUN THINGS THAT ARE COMPLETELY OPTIONAL

It's just...you admit you haven't played the game, so why even bother commenting? I mean, the only real negative complaints for this game that are reasonable are that the plot is mediocre/bad (WELCOME TO VIDEO GAMES) and that the map designs are lackluster. I actually agree with that one, but it hardly makes the game bad overall.

My point is that it's FIRE EMBLEM that has the time travel. I don't care about Chrono Trigger or any other game that might have time travel. I *like* time travel in general, my problem is that there's weird, nonsensical time travel in a FE game which is just... out of place.

Sure, but character designers had changed before FE13 and you still got a sense that it was the same FE world, not generic rpg #4056

Look, like I said before, not all designs are that bad. It's not so much the number of them, but the WAY that they look. And because they stand out so much, yeah, I might've gotten confused and thought there were more. Still.

For instance, it's way worse to be an archer without a breast guard and with cleavage, a witchy-looking person who is just wearing underwear, all the other bra+panties combos, whatever the hell DLC Micaiah's wearing, etc., than to have a sword fighter that's wearing a dress or a rider with thigh highs (both of which have been longtime staples in the FE games; nearly-naked dudes and ladies have not)

I would say that all the poses that have them bent over with their asses up in the air are also problematic, but let's leave that for another time.

YES GRR I HATE THEM. Who the hell cares that they're optional? The whole game is optional at the end of the day! Doesn't mean they don't exist. I mean, it's optional to play FE9/10 but that doesn't somehow mean that I can magically ignore that suddenly we have all kinds of animal people in the FE world.

The point I was making was not that other games have this stuff, the point is that it's Fire Emblem which has a long history, many, many different games with many wonderful worlds and until now they've more or less managed to keep away from this kind of generic fanservice-y rpg stuff.

Just because I haven't physically played it doesn't mean I don't know anything about it, though. I can't afford the console or the game, doesn't mean I have no way of researching what it's about.

IMHO, Awakening is to FE like what Dragon Song was to the LUNAR series. Different style, outfits that don't really fit in with the rest of the series, everything is new and shiny to bring in new fans, etc. Except in Awakening's case, it didn't backfire.

My point is that it's FIRE EMBLEM that has the time travel. I don't care about Chrono Trigger or any other game that might have time travel. I *like* time travel in general, my problem is that there's weird, nonsensical time travel in a FE game which is just... out of place.

But people flinging magic spells all over and turning into dragons are totally cool? Okay then. I don't think you have any say over what is or is not "out of place" in Fire Emblem. IS felt it belonged, therefore, it does. I mean the time travel in Awakening is essentially just fancy dragon magic, which has been in the series before.

Sure, but character designers had changed before FE13 and you still got a sense that it was the same FE world, not generic rpg #4056

It may be a more drastic change than usual, but trust me dear. The previous character designs were really, really not any less generic anime RPG than Awakening.

I would say that all the poses that have them bent over with their asses up in the air are also problematic, but let's leave that for another time.

By "all the poses" I think you mean "one pose of one character" and by that you mean "Panne." And she's pretty awesome regardless, so.

YES GRR I HATE THEM. Who the hell cares that they're optional? The whole game is optional at the end of the day! Doesn't mean they don't exist. I mean, it's optional to play FE9/10 but that doesn't somehow mean that I can magically ignore that suddenly we have all kinds of animal people in the FE world.

Uh. I really can't even respond to this because it's just...so fucking stupid lmao.

Just because I haven't physically played it doesn't mean I don't know anything about it, though. I can't afford the console or the game, doesn't mean I have no way of researching what it's about.

Yeah. Too bad all you can't complain about anything actually important like, I don't know, the gameplay.

IMHO, Awakening is to FE like what Dragon Song was to the LUNAR series. Different style, outfits that don't really fit in with the rest of the series, everything is new and shiny to bring in new fans, etc. Except in Awakening's case, it didn't backfire.

No. The difference between Awakening and Lunar: Dragon Song is that one is a piece of shit that long-time fans AND newcomers hate, and one is an excellent game loved by many. I think you can figure out which is which.

The only complaint I have about the gameplay is 'why is magic so much better than absolutely everything else, especially Dark magic?'

Man, Pair Up was like. The best idea ever.

Panne, Severa and maybe Aversa's poses, though. And it's kinda stupid to say that she's awesome because that's beside the point. It's still problematic.

Why is it stupid? Something being optional to do/play doesn't mean it stops existing. It's up to me whether I want to watch the Transformers movies, but that doesn't mean that I can ignore all the sexist shit in them. Just like how just because someone might choose to not use those DLC, does not mean that the game DOESN'T have fucking swimsuit scenes.

Except I don't care about the gameplay. Why is it any more important than the characters? Sorry I am too poor to play the game and therefore can't have an opinion. The gameplay has never been important to me. I couldn't care less about stats or item triangles or who is or isn't overpowered or what the hell ever.

Look, I don't care that you like the game. I don't care that other people like it and I don't care that for many it's their first introduction to Fire Emblem. If they like it enough to start playing the other ones, great! Awesome, even! I don't mean to shit all over something you enjoy.

Hell, Gaiden is one of my favorite FE's and I know how annoying it can be when people rag on your favorite games.

And sure, just because I and a few other people dislike these new elements and feel that they are TOTALLY out of place in Fire Emblem, doesn't mean others don't enjoy them.

But right now, I do want to voice what I don't like about it and what (As is obvious in this thread) other longtime FE fans don't like about it.

Different anon...

I'm pretty sure you lose all right to an opinion when you say "I don't care about gameplay" in A VIDEO GAME. And I'm right there laughing with the other anon about your "I DON'T CARE IT'S NOT ACTUALLY IN THE GAME PROPER" flail. Just like with the Transformers movies or anything else, if you don't support it -and the other players don't support it - they won't release such a thing with future releases. It in no way impacts your gaming experience. It doesn't even come with the game as you buy it (not like, say, past "unlockable costumes" that were all the rage and often included ridiculously revealing outfits).

And I have seen a lot of video games. I have seen a lot of fanservice. What I saw in Fire Emblem was far, far, FAR less than I've seen in others. Panne has a perfectly good reason to go ass-up, which brings you down to one (that I don't remember noticing despite Severa being a large player for most of the chapters after I got her) and a "maybe". And the least you could do if you're going to bitch and moan about minimal fanservice is mention Vaike and Lon'Fu. Fuck this whole "fanservice is only bad when it's women" thing. I don't find EITHER particularly "problematic" and hate that word with a passion, but at least pay attention to the entire picture!

Why? Seriously, why the fuck? What am I supposed to say about the gameplay? What am I supposed to say about the gameplay in any of the FEs? That I like that vulneraries exist in some but not in others, or that you can rescue units in some but not in others? What do you even mean by *gameplay*? Feels like such a broad term. To me, if it's not an FPS (makes me dizzy), I'm fine. I don't care. As long as I CAN play it at all, as long as I have it, or can emulate it, or whatever - I'm honestly fine and I don't care.

I'm not saying that compared to other video games the fanservice is bad, just that compared to other FEs, compared to how the FE games are - it's a *lot*.

I would've mentioned them, but the anon who first listed the characters which they agreed might be seen as too-sexual, were all women iirc. So I kept up with that.

I really do wonder what world you live in where gameplay doesn't matter in a game.

Gameplay means the overall experience. Are there points that bog down incessantly? Do you get to do things? Are fights a challenge but not impossible? It's really not that hard a concept.

Also, FE games have been tiny pixels up until now, discounting the Wii game. 8-bit fanservice isn't exactly possible. Are you sure it's not that? Because looking at various character designs I quickly find Linde, Palla, Catre, Igrene and Ogma in Rekka no Ken being very fanservice-y. Clarine in Fuin no Tsugiri, Sylvia and Larcei from Geneology, Sothe, Illyana and Lethe in Path of Radiance and...I think I can stop there...

And you DO prove right what someone said to the OP up there about the haters simply wanting to write essays. You wrote an essay that makes no bloody sense, other than that you don't like time travel elements and optional downloads that don't come with the game and in no way affect your game are somehow the devil's spawn.

I never said it didn't matter. Just that I personally don't give a fuck and I don't judge it by its gameplay.

Dancers have always been like that, though. And short skirt and thigh highs... They've always been there. Bikinis haven't.

I'm sorry it doesn't make sense to you, I just stated why I don't like (what i've seen of) the game and why (for me) it's hard to count it as part of the franchise.

Except many of my listed characters aren't dancers.

Most of the anons list aren't in anything wprse than thry are, and nobody is in a straifht-up bikini unless you count the DLC that isn't actually part if the game. As someone below me pointed out rather aptly, hating the game for that DLC is like hating the lion king because it has stupid sequels.

Your reasons for hating it, in other words, don't actually exist. Except for time travel, which makes more than enough sense in context of godlike dragons messing with the universe. Which is what FE does.

And obviously we are missing a fundamental part of understanding where you think gameplay isn't important in a game that spends 90% of its time in a battlefield manoputlating those mechanics and I tend to wonder how the hell you have ever played any video game if ydgaf about them...

Nope, you're wrong. It's perfectly valid to talk about the content of a game without having played it, or to talk about it as something separate from the game play. In that conversation, the gameplay is irrelevant. And that's still a legitimate conversation to have. That's an aspect of the game in the same way that gameplay is. They are two different aspects of the whole package of the game. Both of them are important in saying whether the game is good or bad. That doesn't mean that non-gameplay factors are unimportant, or that gameplay is the only thing you can legitimately talk about, or the only thing that matters. Sorry.

Seriously, I can't emphasize this enough: non-gameplay factors are important and worth talking about. Don't dismiss people's arguments by saying "Well, you don't have any complaints about the gameplay, so clearly your points are wrong." Because that's dumb.

Similarly, it's completely legitimate to care about something that's being put out even if it's not mandatory. "Don't like it don't buy it" is a ridiculous argument. Defend it on its merits, or don't; but don't say "Yes, it's terrible and worthless, but you don't have to play the game with it, so it doesn't matter!" If it's terrible, the fact that it's terrible is reason enough to criticize it. Whether or not it is terrible, I can't comment on it. But come on, that's not a defense.

And original anon said she "loathed the game" based purely on the elements mentioned. Not a single balance of gameplay - plot.

The most ludicrousness point, however, is that OP has zero context for the game. S/he has seen some things on the internet and taken offense, without seeing the entire picture.

As for the optional not-changing-anything-in-the-game extra fanservice DLC is terrible and therefore makes the GAME terrible is just as ridiculous as saying "well, XYZ movie was ok, but there's that poster being sold in Spencer's Gifts where the main actress is baring her cleavage. Therefore the movie sucks", or to say that the terrible sequels to the Lion King make the original a bad movie.They're unrelated objects. The DLC might be terrible but it's NOT PART OF THE GAME.

If you think there's important context for the things that ayrt is criticizing, provide that context. If you think that there are valid issues that are relatively minor within the grand scope of the game, say why you think they're minor. If you want to say "Yes, it's a bad plot, but it's also a really fun game, and I think it's okay to enjoy a game", then say that. If you want to say that you don't think the plot is bad, say why. But don't just run on some thing about how someone's opinion is invalid because they're not talking about the gameplay. I'm not disagreeing with your opinions about the game itself, I just think it's something that's worth addressing instead of casually dismissing for secondary reasons.

Similarly, in regard to the DLC issue, I think you're probably right in that DLC doesn't make the game bad in and of itself. Although I think that it's useful in that it gives us a sense of the developers' method and style and objectives. And to the extent that it's content put out by the game developers, content that is canonical, I think it is relevant to the story of the game and to other non-gameplay elements.

I imagine the devs probably thought "hey, you know, it might be fun to throw random unrelated nonsense for the fans to play with" Again, if it was like the old unlockable bikinis of yore than, yeah, different story. Because that means the devs are assuming that all the players are working towards the objective of getting a character naked. This shows that the developers thought folks might want to have a comedy "bathhouse episode" with the characters 'be spent 20-30 hours getting to know. Or ,might not.

Very quickly because I don't have time for a longer reply - I didn't say I "loathed the game". I said I didn't like it and then said why.

And - by the way - of course while it's impossible to experience gameplay mechanics through wikipedia articles and the like, and to really get the FEEL of a game or whatever, doesn't mean that it's not possible to know literally everything else.

The first thing I did with DLC Micaiah was class change her out of Dark Mage and hey presto she's not wearing that in her combat model anymore. The Tactician/Grandmaster and Sage models suit her much better.

Honestly, I got really irritated at some of the stuff before I played the game but you know what? That was before I played the game. The game itself is fantastic and you don't pay one whit to any of that during it. (With the exception of Tharja, but eh. I don't use her so.)

Researching...doesn't really cover the actual experience. At all.

Anyway. OP of the secret, I feel you. The game's new, so the haters are going to be louder for a while. Best to just weather the storm. I've seen the odd bit of positive/neutral meta on Serene's and Tumblr, so maybe try there.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2259 ]

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SA, yes i mad

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SA, yes i mad

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SA, yes i mad

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Bitchy anon from above, not LK anon

SA, yes i mad

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