Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2013-03-13 06:45 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2013-03-13 06:45 pm
[ SECRET POST #2262 ]
⌈ Secret Post #2262 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 040 secrets from Secret Submission Post #323.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
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I mean, it's basically a choice between either being enslaved or not being able to take care of people (which is an essential part of their nature, so I guess it would be comparable to being deprived of sex or daylight or human interaction or something), because like Dobby said, wizards wouldn't hire House Elves when it was customary to enslave them instead.
So yeah, I would totally side-eye fans who try to justify the slavery. I mean, how do they explain Dobby? Dobby wasn't different because he was weird or deviant or something, it was because he either had enough grit and intelligence to realize that taking care of humans =/= being a slave, or was in a terrible enough situation that he decided he'd rather be free than serve the Malfoys. Which is, y'know, a good thing.
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(Anonymous) 2013-03-13 11:57 pm (UTC)(link)It's not just the wizards who won't hire house elves. All the other house-elves regard Dobby as deviant and explicitly reject any desire to be paid. That might be fucked up but it seems to be what they want insofar as they're able to say. They want to serve wizards and they don't want to be paid for it. They treat the prospect of being freed mostly as a threat. I mean, maybe my memory of that chapter and other house-elf oriented stuff is wrong, but I really don't remember anything other than rejection of the notion of wages or self-mastery.
I don't see any evidence for saying that Dobby isn't just a weirdo. And it's okay that he's a weirdo, he's an awesome weirdo, but that's what he is. I really don't see any inchoate, half-expressed desires for freedom in other house elves. They seem to be pretty negative on the whole deal.
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(Anonymous) 2013-03-14 12:06 am (UTC)(link)If that's the case, wouldn't they be super-inspired by Dobby because he found a way to still serve humans while throwing off the bonds of slavery? Instead of categorically objecting to it? Because Dobby is still serving humans. That's what he's doing. If all they cared about was serving humans they wouldn't have an issue with Dobby and they certainly wouldn't reject being paid with so much fervor.
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Um...no? It wouldn't? That never, ever happens in society. People develop ideas about how things "should" be over the generations, and then, even when changes are in their favor, they lash out at any attempts to change it. Like, some major opponents to women's lib were other women who thought it "unseemly" for women to do things that were a "man's" job and shit like that.
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But...all of the house elves consider Dobby to be weird and deviant. Think of a facet of the human condition, and I promise you there's someone out there who subverts it. This doesn't mean that Dobby "saw through" something, it just means he's fundamentally different, and as far as we know, the only reason for that is the severe abuse he suffered.
I think the real issue is that people expect house elves to act and think and want like humans, but they're not human. They don't think like humans, they don't have human thoughts, morals, or ideas, they have house elf ones.
I don't know, maybe it makes more sense to me because I'm more of a sci-fi fan, and the concept of alien psychology is a big theme. I like house elves because they're probably the only species or element of Rowling's universe that is actually separated from humans. You look at things like the Sorting Hat, and it's really messed up, but somehow it's okay because it's a wizarding tradition.
If there's any issue with the elves, it's that their abuse is actually acceptable in wizarding society, and Rowling really never addresses how messed up that is. But the concept of a species that only desires to do household chores is a really long standing on in human folk lore.
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But I think Rowling does address it. She doesn't make anything big of it, because god forbid DH be about anything interesting (still bitter!), but the scene in the kitchens in GoF where Winky was drunk and Hermione tries to get them to join SPEW pretty handily portrayed the House Elves there as having a pretty terrible mindset.
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(Anonymous) 2013-03-14 12:36 am (UTC)(link)"Hermione began her post-Hogwarts career at the Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures where she was instrumental in greatly improving life for house-elves and their ilk."
That doesn't clear up the "do House Elves like their condition or not" debate but it does show that at least, all of those who don't like it, they get to have a choice after Deathly Hallows, which is something that they didn't have. Before, they could very well be happy to serve a family for no pay other than food and lodgings, but they couldn't choose which family they'd work for and couldn't leave either. I guess Hermione found a middle ground between her initial idea of SPEW and the wishes of the House Elves.
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Tricking them always seemed skeevy as heck to me.
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