[ SECRET POST #2268 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2268 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 055 secrets from Secret Submission Post #324.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

We are taking the OP's word for it that this person is a SJW. From the activities described, they could just as easily be a very engaged, highly critical, socially aware fan, which is not the same thing.

[(Anonymous)]

It kinda is. Over-eagerness and over-sensitivity is a key indicator of a SJW, and once you see that glimmer in their eye as they hold court at the coffee table on the ills of whatever (in my day it was the harassment of Mousemen) you can brand them. They always spout some bullshit justification about being just a very engaged, highly critical, socially aware fan too.

[(Anonymous)]

So what the heck is the difference between someone capable of thinking critically, noticing problematic work and pointing it out in a discussion about such work, and a SJW?

Because it seems to me that these days any sort of awareness and open dislike of racist/sexist/homophobic elements in something gets folks labeled as SJW.

Fandom has always been about drastically overthinking everything. We memorize the names of the various planets and ships in Star Wars and create elaborate justifications for Han Solo measuring his smuggling run in parsecs, rather than units of time. We get down on writers for getting Spider-man's character Wrong, All Wrong! We sit and discuss the minutia of our fandoms in obsessive detail, right down to thinking about her certain impossible characteristics would work "in real life." Why is it that when that same critical attention turns toward the social implications (and what is story and entertainment if not an ancient enforcement and encouragement of social mores) automatically perceived as "too much?"

I'd rather listen to people talk about the social implications of Black Canary's treatment at the hands of various writers than one more discussion about who would win, Batman or Superman?

[(Anonymous)]

I wouldn't really want to listen to either of those discussions, but there has to be a way to be into social justice without being a SJW.

[(Anonymous)]

There is, its called just being a decent person. You are polite when the subjects arise in your life. Email/Write your local electoral representative whenever an issue of social justice arises, maybe donate a little cash or time to a relevant charity. And just get on living your life without hectoring people when they say something you don't like.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't see why people shouldn't be called out for saying something sexist/racist/homophobic. That is an issue of social justice.

I mean, there's a line between getting wide-eyed and frothy because someone used the word "niggardly" and between saying, "Hey, that's not cool" to someone using the actual n-word, or calling someone a "he-she" or making about rape being funny.

Social justice isn't really just about Big Causes that involve elected officials and charities. It's about the everyday attitudes of people. It's far more about what's considered casually acceptable, the sort of thing you just accept in a movie, comic, or conversation without even blinking, even though when you look at it, hey, yeah, it is kind of weird that almost ever Asian superhero is specifically a martial artists of some kind, or hey, it's kind of annoying how the most generic answer for "why is that female character crazy" is "a man done her wrong."

[nyxelestia]

You are polite when the subjects arise in your life. Email/Write your local electoral representative whenever an issue of social justice arises, maybe donate a little cash or time to a relevant charity. And just get on living your life without hectoring people when they say something you don't like.

And that's the difference between a social justice activist and a social justice warrior. Guess which one actually does those things and which one just rants about social justice issues on a hair trigger without any thought to practical application or context?

[diet_poison]

Heckling people? Not cool. But keeping my mouth shut all the time, and never saying anything? If someone makes a sexist remark to me I'm going to call them out on it, sorry. If I see something blatantly problematic I'm going to say so.

That doesn't mean I'm going to yell and kick and scream and always fail to get context. But if you (general you) think people who respond to SJ issues are always SJWs then that is your problem.

I'm not sure which you are, but saying "being polite" and then implying that behind-closed-doors activism is the only legitimate way to go about things kind of makes me wonder.

This is becoming a real problem. The phrase "SJW" is losing its value. Someone who cares about social issues and annoys you because you don't isn't automatically an SJW, and it's your (again, general your) problem if you're annoyed because I don't like (for example) sexist things or people being sexist.

[(Anonymous)]

In general SJWs are using their arguments not as a way to better society but to feel elevated above other people because they are oh so much more enlightened. And yeah, sometimes it is hard to draw that line, and yeah, there are probably a lot of them that start our with genuine intentions but end up amongst the wrong crowd etc.

The problem is though that SJWs are not harmless. When someone gets all obsessive and whatever over analyzing batman vs superman, they might get obnoxious, and their arguments might get irritating to deal with, but being told I do not ~understand batman on the level that they do~ doesn't actually hurt as much as being told I am being a bad minority just cause I do not fit whatever college class definition of what we should be all about. I've seen a friend being berated for being a traitor to her race just cause her opinion didn't fit the racism mould of some white girl that had never even had to fucking deal with that problem. I've watched SJWs call a friend of mine homophobic just cause she didn't ship a particular lesbian ship in a canon (nevermind that not only she is a lesbian herself, but she has other girl/girl pairings she shipped just not that one). Caring about social justice is great. There is still a lot that needs to change in the world. The problem is that most SJWs don't care about change, they just care about being right and thing fitting their extremely narrow point of view.

[(Anonymous)]

SJWs makes things worse. After being biched at by them for a while you, for example, stop wanting to buy a hybrid and wish to buy a hummer and drag around a trailer of deadweight (example shamelessly stolen) just to make things worse to spite them. I took up racism and antisemitism, in a casual way around a certain clique, just because it pissed the SJW off so much and got back at her for constantly bitching about it and ramming it into every conversation no matter how inappropriate. I've contributed to many less aware people thinking racism is fine, and you can lay it all at the door of the neighborhood SJW who just made being a worse person seem like the more attractive option.

Oh, and "tone argument" warning, whatever that means.

I mean, look at me.

[insanenoodlyguy]

I'm... not really sure hybrids are a SJW cause, though otherwise your explanation is solid. Your kinda an asshole as bad as them, granted, though I can't really judge.

[(Anonymous)]

So...you're kind of like a petty supervillain, then? Deliberately making the world a worse place because someone annoyed you?

Forget social justice, that's just pathetic.

[kittenmommy]

I took up racism and antisemitism, in a casual way around a certain clique, just because it pissed the SJW off so much and got back at her for constantly bitching about it and ramming it into every conversation no matter how inappropriate. I've contributed to many less aware people thinking racism is fine

Wow. You're a bigger asshole than any frothing SJW. just so you know.

and you can lay it all at the door of the neighborhood SJW who just made being a worse person seem like the more attractive option.

No. Your decision to be a bad person is all yours. Own it.

You're not "spiting" anyone or "showing" anyone anything, except what a horrible human being you are.

[diet_poison]

lol

No, the only one to blame for you being racist is you.

This is ridiculous. You're just as bad as they are.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, no, I get what you mean about how SJW are super-annoying (although I wish there was a different name for them. Like how I wish that the people using their religion to justify hatred could go by something other than "Christian."), but it's just, judging from OP's secret, I'm not seeing that so much as I'm seeing "Person talking about social issues."

It's the level of arrogance and blame that elevates someone to that hated status, but more and more, it seems like the term pops up any time someone discusses social issues.

I mean, feminism is important to me. I also happen to really like a particular medium that is pretty hit or miss or double-plus-miss with representing ladies well. So when I talk about the stuff I like, that comes up too. And not just in negatives--I'm as likely to be excited about positives. But the online eye rolls and cries of SJW come out when the word feminist or anything smacking of talking about the issue comes up, even if it's not the sum total of the conversation.

[(Anonymous)]

If you're consistently polite and respectful - to those with whom you're conversing, anyway, you don't need to be as gentle with the work you're critiquing - and someone responds passive-aggressively (or just plain aggressively), it's a lot more likely that they're the asshole than that you are.

And yeah, I know the cringe-y feeling that comes when the vocal minority of a group is perceived to represent the entirety of that group.

[kittenmommy]

Most SWJs I've seen online are straight, white, college girls. So it doesn't surprise me that you and your friends got "schooled" by them.

For them, it's not about doing right, it's about being right. And about being bullies... that's a very important aspect.

[(Anonymous)]

I've seen a friend being berated for being a traitor to her race just cause her opinion didn't fit the racism mould of some white girl that had never even had to fucking deal with that problem.

I'm Latina and I've always felt very strongly about ethnic stereotyping, discrimination, and racism (other issues as well, of course, but these are more personal-- particularly as I lived in a relatively white neighborhood for most of my youth and faced my share of each). I've been doing activist work since my pre-teen years, so OBVIOUSLY this is something I feel strongly about.

And yet, SJWs give me the chills. I can't even count the number of times I've been berated (that's putting it nicely, by the way) for being too lenient (which is hilarious considering everyone I know, including other activists, think I'm strict), or not caring enough, or not knowing what I'm talking about, etc, and most of the time the rage is coming from white people (no offense, of course) who have never experienced even half of what they're screaming about.

Sometimes a spade is just a spade. In the real world you can't get away with treating everyone like an enemy and screaming at everyone. They do this shit because they have their anonymity to hide behind.

I'm all for social justice and calling out on racist/misogynist/sexist/other-ist shit, but some people take it too far. And by taking it too far I mean lashing out and attacking everyone and everything that doesn't measure up to your particular standards.

[al28894]

To be truthful, I would rather have none of these discussions and would prefer fans to unite among themselves regardless of what they are and create amazing fanworks for themselves and for others.

I know, I know. This is a the real world; but if some portions of fandom can do it, then I'm sure it could be possible for all fandoms *hopeless optimist*.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't see how those things are mutually exclusive.

I went to Star Wars with my primary example because there was an essay a while back about how most Star Wars fans "hate" Star Wars. That is, they love it, but they also love discussing it in excruciating detail and critiquing it, because they already consumed the movies on a surface level over and over again, and now...well, critique happens. Critique, ideally, isn't all bad, but it does mean that it usually involves phrases like, "how this could have been handled better."

For example, there's a YouTube video of "What If Star Wars Episode One Was Good." The guy picks it apart and replans the whole movie. There's no doubt he's a true fan, and a lot of fans listened to that movie pitch with growing glee, because he's telling a great story based on a fandom we all love. But it's also a heavy critique on what went wrong in the real movie.

And again, maybe it's because I went to art college. By senior year, my roommates and I would catch ourselves critiquing television commercials: "This was effective, that could have been done better like this..." and so on, because thinking critically about the media we consumed had been a major part of advancing in each class. It didn't make us unhappy with what we watched--the discussions were enjoyable and added extra layers to what we liked, and often wound up branching out into new ideas.

Now I get where that's not everyone's thing. My Dad and one of my friends, they watch a movie, they enjoy it, and that's all and that's what makes them happy. But the majority of my other friends, we watch it, we enjoy it, we talk about it, we go over everything we liked, other ways things could play out, what was effective, what could have been better, etc etc.

Which isn't to say that's how everyone should consume media. Just that it seems weird and a little snooty to paint the idea of a fandom where fans don't have critical discussions as an "ideal" sort of world. And certain off the mark to imply that critique gets in the way of or doesn't even contribute to amazing fanwork.

[diet_poison]

There are lots of fans in the real world whose interactions center around discussing fandom and making fanworks. That's almost exclusively what my best friends on campus and I do together.

That's not to say, though, that discussing SJ issues (or other "uncomfortable"/controversial topics) is completely taboo. That happens sometimes too. And I'm not afraid to voice my opinion on something.

+1

[(Anonymous)]

yeah, this. couldn't have said it better.
OP's description doesn't sound like a "SJW" at all, they just sound butthurt that they can't avoid the topic without, yknow, actually saying something about their preference.

[starphotographs]

But I really like that kind of overthinking in fandom! That's honestly what I came for. And I feel like some of it has been kind of supplanted in favor of making a sociology course out of everything.

[(Anonymous)]

Por que no los dos?

[insanenoodlyguy]

No it sounds like a textbook SJW. They are hating entire fandoms.