Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2013-03-24 03:34 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2013-03-24 03:34 pm
[ SECRET POST #2273 ]
⌈ Secret Post #2273 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 117 secrets from Secret Submission Post #325.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ], [ 1 2 3 - trolls ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
Re: Fellow Libruls
i think the biggest problem in the abortion debate is that both of the main sides are arguing in favour of someone/something that the other is not. neither is the anti-position of the other. pro-life individuals are concentrating on the foetus, whereas pro-choice people focus on those carrying the foetus (or that have the potential to do so).
but so many people just assume that those who disagree with which one you choose to focus on are automatically anti-your opinion. i can't even begin to count the amount of times i've heard people from the pro-life side claim that everyone else "hates babies" and people from the pro-choice side claiming their opponents "hate women". neither is inherently true at all, and often isn't?? pro-life people can love women. pro-choice folks can love children/babies/whatever. no matter which stance they opt to take, you can't really deduce anything else about their character from that.
and yet people try all the time. "no, pro-life people really do hate women." "pro-choicers clearly hate children." nobody stops to think about the position the other side is taking. they just assume it's the opposite stance they're taking.
it's really not that difficult to make pro-life people think about the issue a little more clearly, and it puzzles me that pro-choicer individuals take such knee-jerk methods to attempt it. nobody is going to listen to you if you accuse them of hating women, or adhering to the patriarchy, or want nothing more than to take women back 50 years, or whatever. and if you don't want people to listen to you, then what's the point anyway?
Re: Fellow Libruls
(Anonymous) 2013-03-25 04:24 am (UTC)(link)Re: Fellow Libruls
if you want people to listen to you and change their ways, don't attack them. if you don't care about people changing their minds, then you're doing the cause a disservice.
blanket judging an entire group of people is almost never rational. pro-life people can respect women, even if they respect foetuses more on this one particular issue.
Re: Fellow Libruls
(Anonymous) 2013-03-25 05:23 am (UTC)(link)Re: Fellow Libruls
pro-life people value the life of the unborn more than they value the right for a woman to dictate whether or not their unborn child lives or dies. that value is not set on equal abstracts, so to boil it down to "they respect foetuses more than they respect women" is fallacious.
for the record, i am not pro-life, so your argumentativeness is poorly placed.
Re: Fellow Libruls
(Anonymous) 2013-03-25 08:56 pm (UTC)(link)This is absolutely true. And it's exacerbated by the fact that the abortion debate is completely embroiled with all these other debates that actually have nothing to do with the central question re abortion (the central question surrounding abortion itself, in my mind, has to be: "What is the status of a fetus, what consideration is due to it, and what rights does it have?"). It's complicated because the abortion debate has become a constitutional question of central importance that determines a huge amount of American politics. It's become entangled with questions of religion and politics. And it's become entangled with a huge amount of culture-war stuff, a lot of cultural bullshit and cultural resentments and cultural identification marks, that, again, have nothing to do with someone's position on abortion as such but which have become as important to it.
and I think that's why people tend to view the issue in a reductive way - because, to a large extent, the abortion debate isn't about abortion anymore. At least not in terms of its emotional impact, of what makes people care about it. It's about those smug elitist big-city bastards who want to destroy our way of life and think we're idiots and don't respect us and how evil they are, or it's about those smug, repressive, idiotic small-town bastards who want to destroy our way of life and want us all to live the same way we did 100 years ago and how evil they are. So much of what goes on in the abortion debate is abstracted from abortion itself. And I think that's not a good thing (and I've said before on here that I think abortion is by far the issue that is most divisive and the most problematic in American politics).