fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2275 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2275 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 072 secrets from Secret Submission Post #325.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ like 7 or 8 troll secrets. Stopped counting ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Honestly, that's what I really liked about Nine - he was cynical and snarky for a REASON that made sense for his character. He was coping with being the only survivor of a horrific war, and all he had left was the humans that he had spent so much time with. I don't know about most people, but I find that when I really care about something, if it does something wrong or gets me angry, I will go on about it much longer and nastier than I would if it were anything else. (See Doctor Who, heh.)

Not to mention Nine grew! He starts out grumpy and disillusioned and ends up dancing with Rose and Jack and going out for chips with them and it's just... gah! You can clearly see how Ten was born out of Nine's changed and more optimistic attitude!

You just don't see the same transition between Ten and Eleven. Sure, I'm not going to deny that Ten's exit wasn't hammy as fuck, but he had a lot to be optimistic about! Eleven shouldn't have been so cynical about everything, and more importantly, the writing shouldn't have been hamming everything up (like people taking a photo of the crazy sun) to make him right.

A lot of Ten's stuff was cheesy and silly but that's what Doctor Who is all about! There was no question that he loved humans, and that made us as an audience love him. Then you look at Eleven, and I just think 'would you walk into a gas chamber without hesitation to save an older man just because?' Because Ten might have been upset about it, but there was no question that he was going in. Eleven... I can see him saying sorry and making some argument about the greater good.

Also, I think you're right - Eleven seems so awkward with humans in general, and that's just bizarre after all of the other Doctors. Nine danced, Ten sprayed love all over the place, and while I'm not as versed in the older Docs, I'm sure that they weren't the sort to act like all humans had weird cooties.

Exactly! And it wasn't a complete 180 either. Even at the beginning you had Nine rocking out to a jukebox at the end of the world. His quirks were there, but RTD realized it wasn't the quirks that made the character. Nine's character was all about trust, opening up, forgiveness, and facing his actions from the war. He really did have a character arc, culminating in the final moment where he decides that it's better to be a coward than to destroy both sides again.

It's the same with Donna (although like everyone and their mom's I'm still not happy about her ending). Yes, she can be a shrill harpy at times, especially in her first episode, but her character's not about all that. Her journey is one of self-worth, that a person is never "just a temp" and has so much potential and capability of achieving great things, even if they don't realize it.

I'm still not entirely sure what Amy's arc was supposed to be. The fifth season was fine enough. We began with little Amelia and she had to "grow up." But even then, it was the Doctor with the universe saving sacrifice in the Big Bang and Amy's job was to just remember him, which - thinking back - is the first time in New Who that the Doctor's a decidedly more active role in the finale than the companion. And then don't ever get me started on the sixth season.

Also, the thing is Eleven doesn't have to be cynical. If you haven't seen Death of Doctor yet from SJA, I'd definitely recommend. It's the one time that RTD has written Eleven, and it's brilliant. Pretty much everything we've talked about with Nine and Ten's love for everything shows up in Eleven, except for he's still very much Eleven.

I'm not sure about the other Doctor, but I've seen quite of bit of Three and Four and they seemed pretty chill and open with people. And they most certainly did not have Eleven's trait of acting like a spoiled four year old whenever they were forced to stay in the same place for more than an hour.

The older Doctors could be dickish to humans and to not really understand them, but the thing is -- that made sense. The Doctor is one person. His personality changes drastically, but he's the same guy and retains the same lessons he learned in his previous regeneration. He grows up over time, across incarnations, not just within them. Nine and Ten are suffering the fallout of Eight's actions, not their own incarnations,' but they treat it as though they feel they themselves did it, because they DID.

The older Doctors are often weird with humans because they're younger, and more ignorant, and less experienced, and haven't learned as much about them as the newer Doctors have. Even so, they know they're ignorant about humans. Sometimes they don't care that they're ignorant, but they don't go around being all pop-culture savvy and up to date on the latest developments and shit, yet still make pointless comments about how they understand humans sooooo much better than humans understand themselves. The whole point is that they think humans are weird because they don't understand them yet.

OTOH, in light of Nine and Ten's attitude towards humans, there's just no real reason for Eleven to have those traits you've mentioned. It doesn't make sense, and nothing happened to make him that way. It's not like Ten was murdered by bloodthirsty humans who let their own stupidity and selfishness get the best of them and betrayed him. Nor did anything else happen that you can point to and say "oh, look, there it is" and know that it made Eleven cynical.

I don't mind Eleven being cynical and disparaging on principle, I can think of plenty of reasons that he could have developed into that, but I do mind the fact that even though it makes no sense for him to be like that, his behavior is usually backed up by the story and therefore the message is "humans suck, only a few smart guys who are inherently better than all of you can save the day, get out of the way, god damn why are you always making the poor Doctor's life so difficult by getting attacked when he knows so much better than you".

None of the stuff like Ten grousing at UNIT for most of a two-parter, only for them to prove him wrong in the end by coming up with their own ideas and for him to be delighted at being proven wrong. Or all the geniuses just walking out on Rattigan in disgust when he tries to convince them to come with him and let the earth suffocate. Or the Doctor pinning his entire big rescue plan on his belief that the petri dish clones on New Earth would choose to de-infect everyone else of their own free will.

I disagree about Eleven not walking into a gas chamber for Wilf though. Whatever else, he's always willing to sacrifice himself for other people. And to be fair, he'd probably be a lot less bitchy about it than Ten was even given the same emotional circumstances. But I don't think he'd tell Wilf that it was his honor to die for him, because why would it be an honor for him? He never gives any indication of feeling honored to help other people. He does it because his conscience wouldn't let him do otherwise. He'd do it because that's the kind of thing the Doctor does, even though Moffat never bothers to show us how he feels about it, because feelings aren't important, apparently.

[ SECRET POST #2275 ]

Re: Anyone excited for new Doctor Who episodes?

Re: Anyone excited for new Doctor Who episodes?

Re: Anyone excited for new Doctor Who episodes?