fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2284 ]

[ SECRET POST #2284 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2284 ⌋

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/apr/03/manchester-police-goths-punks-hate-crime

Pretty cool to see they've considered the fact there's no reason to privilege religion above other ideologies or group identifiers and doubled down and taken that to its logical conclusion.

Maybe the Goths were asking for it. They did ransack Rome after all.

hahahahahaha

The sarcasm dripping from this comment almost made me choke on my dinner ♥

Hi my name is Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way and I have long ebony black hair (that's how I got my name) with purple streaks and red tips that reaches my mid-back and icy blue eyes like limpid tears and a lot of people tell me I look like Amy Lee (AN: if u don't know who she is I have no obligation to educate you!). I'm not related to Gerard Way but I wish I was because he's a major civil rights figure. I'm a vampire but my teeth have passing privilege. I have pale white skin. I'm also a witch, and I go to a magic school called Hogwarts in England where I'm in the EOP (I'm disadvantaged). I'm a goth (in case you couldn't tell) and I suffer mostly discrimination. I love Hot Topic and it is my safe space. For example today I was wearing a black corset with matching lace around it and a black leather miniskirt, pink fishnets and black combat boots. I was wearing black lipstick, white foundation, black eyeliner and red eye shadow. I was walking outside Hogwarts. It was snowing and raining so there was no sun, which I was very happy about. A lot of preps stared at me. I called the police.

Edited 2013-04-05 00:01 (UTC)

What the hell are you doing you motherfucker

Edited 2013-04-05 00:59 (UTC)

Yeah, it is cool. Hopefully other places will follow their lead.

they will begin recording offences against members of alternative subcultures in the same way they do attacks based on race, religion, disability, sexual orientation or transgender identity.

wait really

hey cops how about you actually record offences against members of the groups you just mentioned as hate crimes before you worry about our gothic population

...can't they do both?

i dunno. maybe things are different in the UK but i am extremely jaded about cops in the US re: hate crimes. ...and extremely jaded in general, so that probably doesn't help

They

do?

lol

Fair point.

I am sure made from firsthand experience of the way that the Met, and GMP deal with hate crimes and hate incidents. Surely speaking from a position of being aware of the level of importance senior officers impress upon their people to properly categorise and deal with such occurrences because it's a political hot topic with huge negative ramifications if screwed up.

Please, do tell me more.

i am nayrt just so ya know, but i'm curious. does law enforcement have a good reputation for handling hate crimes properly in the UK? does it usually lead to harsher sentencing and does that work well as a deterrent?

when i see legislation like this i'm always really skeptical, first of the basis (apart from the murders mentioned in the article--who determined what qualifies as an "alternative subculture" and based on what statistics) and second of if and how it's going to actually be enforced, especially when it seems so vague. it's one thing to put a law in place to appease people and it's another to actually utilize it effectively.

I mean, two people were violently assaulted and one of them was killed, by a group of people who targeted them because they were dressed in a way that demonstrated their membership in a particular subculture. Regardless of whether their belonging to a specific group is innate or immutable, it's no reason for them to be attacked or murdered, and it does serve the purpose of threatening or intimidating the group as a whole. I don't see what's so absurd, "lol goths" aside.

Ok so what if there was violence against Masons or people who knit or bicyclists or any other number of groups of people, would those also be hate crimes

From my reply to you below:

For me, the defining factors of a hate crime are (1) that it targets people based on membership in a group that forms a significant component of their identity, whether innate or chosen, and (2) that it targets them specifically and solely because of that identity characteristic, in a way that implicitly threatens and intimidates all members of that group.

There's a difference between a hobby and a subculture/lifestyle. The reason we punish hate crimes more harshly than the equivalent "normal" crime is that hate crimes terrorize an entire community in addition to the physical harm they inflict upon the victim. I think explicit anti-subculture violence fits that description.

I don't know, I think this is pretty silly myself. Certainly crimes against people of these subcultures should be taken seriously but hate crimes, really? It's fucking music and fashion and the majority of teenagers and people in general don't stick to goth/emo/punk lifestyles for life so it's not in the same category as sexual orientation or gender, what the fuck

They're clearly self-evidently different categories, but religion?

That's the one that messes it all up. Either you open the floodgates, or you kick it from the protected categories. Which given that the latter is politically untenable, leaves us with the former.

Many religions have an ethnic or cultural aspect to them where even if you were an atheist you'd still be subject to discrimination, ie. Jewish people or Catholics.

And you CHOOSE to be emo, goth, punk, whatever -- that's not something you're raised in like being Catholic or Jewish, where you're ALWAYS Catholic or Jewish even if you stop being Catholic or Jewish. So trying to put a subculture that's based mostly on things like music and fashion in a protected category is ridiculous

Mind you, I'm not saying it's okay to hate people or commit crimes against them based on whatever subculture they are a part of, just that it shouldn't be considered a hate crime

DA

I don't like the emphasis on "you CHOOSE to be goth, etc." for a couple of reasons. First, it sounds kind of really victim-blamey, like if they didn't want to be targeted for this kind of violence, they should just give up this subculture/presentation that they've made a significant part of their identity (and yes, there are lifelong goths and whatnot). Second, I reject the notion that I'm ALWAYS going to be Catholic despite having walked away from the religion. Besides which, it implies that converts cannot be the target of violence on the basis of their adopted religion, even if they are dressed in a way that clearly identifies them as a member of that faith (for instance, Muslim converts wearing hijab).

For me, the defining factors of a hate crime are (1) that it targets people based on membership in a group that forms a significant component of their identity, whether innate or chosen, and (2) that it targets them specifically and solely because of that identity characteristic, in a way that implicitly threatens and intimidates all members of that group. It's that implicit threat that makes it a hate crime, and as long as the group you're threatening has a single, unifying identity, I don't see how it becomes a "lesser" form of terrorism if the identity is a chosen one.

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[ SECRET POST #2284 ]

Mancester Police now consider attacks on Goths etc Hate Crimes

Re: Mancester Police now consider attacks on Goths etc Hate Crimes

Re: Mancester Police now consider attacks on Goths etc Hate Crimes

Re: Mancester Police now consider attacks on Goths etc Hate Crimes

Re: Mancester Police now consider attacks on Goths etc Hate Crimes

It was Dumbleydore

Re: Mancester Police now consider attacks on Goths etc Hate Crimes

Re: Mancester Police now consider attacks on Goths etc Hate Crimes

Re: Mancester Police now consider attacks on Goths etc Hate Crimes

Re: Mancester Police now consider attacks on Goths etc Hate Crimes

Re: Mancester Police now consider attacks on Goths etc Hate Crimes

Re: Mancester Police now consider attacks on Goths etc Hate Crimes

Re: Mancester Police now consider attacks on Goths etc Hate Crimes

Re: Mancester Police now consider attacks on Goths etc Hate Crimes

Re: Mancester Police now consider attacks on Goths etc Hate Crimes

Re: Mancester Police now consider attacks on Goths etc Hate Crimes

Re: Mancester Police now consider attacks on Goths etc Hate Crimes

Re: Mancester Police now consider attacks on Goths etc Hate Crimes

Re: Mancester Police now consider attacks on Goths etc Hate Crimes

Re: Mancester Police now consider attacks on Goths etc Hate Crimes

Re: Mancester Police now consider attacks on Goths etc Hate Crimes

Re: Mancester Police now consider attacks on Goths etc Hate Crimes