[ SECRET POST #2287 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2287 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 084 secrets from Secret Submission Post #327.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

02. http://i.imgur.com/RXfJI1N.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

Lol. Well, honestly, if it's wrong to be like that, I'm in trouble too, OP.

[(Anonymous)]

Same here.
I know I just couldn't be a companion, because I would fail terribly at it.

[ill_omened]

Agreed.

Though the doctor always makes me legit cross when it comes to the Daleks and stops short of eradicating them because 'that would make me just like them and I couldn't bear that!'.

No it bloody well wouldn't, pull the switch you moral coward.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, he's a real idiot about the Daleks. He's got some wires crossed in his brain.

Not that I don't understand where he's coming from, I mean, given the stuff he did in the Time War and how horribly fucked-up and PTSD'd he is from that, maybe him claiming that it would make him just like them isn't exactly hot air. Maybe he would slide into becoming just like them, going around time and space exterminating everything that was hurting someone regardless of whether the species shaped up in the future would eventually become exterminating EVERYTHING. Slippery slopes are mostly bogus, but maybe they're not necessarily bogus for a 900 year old shell-shocked war vet with a time machine. *shrugs*

Then again, he's so incredibly indecisive about the Daleks it's kind of ridiculous. Four: noooooo um, uh, what if this has bad consequences...uh I mean...it would make me just like them....wait, um, actually....species have befriended one another while fighting the Daleks! Yeah, that's a good excuse! Seven: LOL@U Skaro! *blows up everyone and everything while listening to Davros scream for mercy* Nine: Why don't you rid the universe of your filth and just die?/ NO WAIT I LIED DON'T DIE PLZ. Ten: WHY ARE YOU NOT BECOMING GOOD WHEN HUMANS TELL YOU TO BE GOOD HOW CAN HUMAN DNA NOT MAKE YOU GOOD HOW CAN YOU BE SO MEAN IT DOES NOT COMPUTE AJHGJDHGDHFGHFHGFLKCXTLSJ.

[(Anonymous)]

Your summary there had me spout soda through the nose. It's very apt.

[(Anonymous)]

Dr =/= the Doctor. One is a title, the other a name.

[wldcatsprstr_14]

I'm the same. I would feel awful that people had to die but my fear of irreparably fucking up the future in a way that makes it worse than it already is would stop me from insisting on any changes to the past. I'd just be so paranoid that my attempts to make things better would horribly backfire.

From "The Shakespeare Code"

[elephantinegrace]

Martha: But are we safe? Can we move around and stuff?

The Doctor: Of course we can. Why do you ask?

Martha: It's like in the films! You step on a butterfly, you change the future of the human race!

The Doctor: I'll tell you what, then: don't...step on any butterflies. What have butterflies ever done to you?

[(Anonymous)]

I think that's perfectly reasonable. You know, difference of opinion, but not an unjustifiable or an indefensible one. It's not as though pure idealism is always the right way and you shouldn't be ashamed for thinking as you do.

[(Anonymous)]

The Doctor is a good person. Yes, he makes mistakes, and he's a flawed person, but he's not a bad person to be similar to morally. I think that several of the times he disagrees with his companions, he's the one in the right. It's all well and good to care about people, but the Doctor is smart enough and experienced enough to see the big picture, and that's not a bad thing.

Keep in mind, the last time the Doctor decided to go with the 'companion' model of caring more about individual people and feelings more than the general wellbeing of the universe and the greater good was The Waters of Mars, and that was hardly his finest hour.

[(Anonymous)]

re: your s!b: It doesn't make you a terrible person, it just makes you less secure in your convictions than Donna. Donna was a down-to-earth but pretty simple person -- little education, little world experience, probably never studied anything remotely related to philosophy or politics or ethics in her life. She mainly knew people and so of course she would have a powerful NOPE reaction to the idea of letting people die, without really grasping the bigger picture until the end.

OTOH, the big picture is important, but it isn't necessarily more important than the little picture. I think the show does a pretty excellent job of showing how too much "ends justify the means" actions adding up can result in a mentality that's really poisonous and degrading to the mind and spirit, re: Dalek, The Runaway Bride, etc.

Like, for example, the end of The Parting of the Ways when Nine just can't bring himself to massacre people to save the planet? That's NOT a good thing objectively at all, that's pretty much dooming everyone and if Rose hadn't Bad Wolf'd the Earth would've been fucked, it was incredibly cowardly and selfish and unheroic, but it was incredibly important for his character. If he'd done it, it'd have set his emotional state back a hundred steps.

Again, not remotely heroic, but very few people have the capacity to be some perfect utilitarian moral computer program. It's unnatural. So just not being capable of thinking that way, because thinking that way was just so utterly revolting and bleak, was incredibly incredibly powerful and honest and it made me smile and tear up even as I was facepalming at him for being an idiot. It was incredibly human. Well not human in the technical sense, but you know what I mean...

[dethtoll]

I think you have to find a balance between realism and idealism. The way I see it, realism is working within the world we've got; idealism is working to make the world something better.

[intrigueing]

That doesn't make you a horrible person at all. That's a perfectly reasonable way of looking at things.

However, the reason the companions are generally not like that is so that they check the Doctor when he loses sight of the little things because he's too caught up in the big picture, so that the Doctor + companions balance out to a good middle ground.

And anyway, being too companion-like isn't necessarily a great thing either. It can be kind of self-centered, which isn't necessarily bad but which can go off the rails in a bad way in the wrong circumstances. I mean, Waters of Mars happened because he was initially too compassionate, but that compassion promptly got hijacked by hubris and anger over having to obey harsh laws when there was no one left to enforce them and ended with the Doctor tearing apart history while basically gleefully singing "FUCK DA POLICE" rather than being a good person.

So y'know, it's not like one mentality is bad or the other is good. They're both pretty important, and that's why there's at least two people in the TARDIS and usually more than one person with different attitudes involved in any of their successful adventures.

[(Anonymous)]

Not all of the companions of the Doctor are self ritious. Look at Sarah Kingdom-she killed her brother when ordered too. No questions just did.

Ace also liked to blow things up.

perhaps some classic who would fit the bill?

[(Anonymous)]

OMG, Classic Who. I tried, I really did, but I just couldn't. The first two seasons just about killed me out of boredom. I skimmed through a few more episodes before I finally just skipped to the last season and called it.

*Shakes head* I'll maybe give it another shot in a few years or so (when i'm older, basically), but for now I'll stick to New Who.

[(Anonymous)]

oh, well, there's your problem! The first seasons are definitely the slowest and most different--back then it was mostly supposed to be an edutainment type deal, travel through history looking at stuff! and only later did the sci-fi mythology start to get more detailed.

In my books, the best way is to watch the first ep of each Doctor (as an introduction) and then at least one or two serials for him, either most recommended or the ones with summaries that interest you the most. There isn't a lot of continuity between different serials, so other than going "Oh, when did this companion come in and where's so-and-so?" there won't be much confusion.

[(Anonymous)]

I think I might be like that too. Although then again, if it were for real and not just some hypothetical situation, I don't know...

I also think having to make that sort of choices, or even to be witness to them, would turn me off from time-travelling fairly quickly, fun adventures with the Doctor or not.

[writerserenyty]

For me, I want to think I have a really strong moral compass, but when I think about that sort of thing I'd worry about big picture things as well, and I'd probably be hesitant (especially with big events like Pompeii). If it was saving one person I'd probably fight for it, but if you save everyone then that will change the future in a major way.

[(Anonymous)]

I think a lot more people would be like you than they'd like to admit. Everyone wants to believe that when shit goes down they'd have the courage and morals to do the right thing, but no-one can know for sure until they've been in a situation like that (obviously I mean a real life emergency situation, not a fake sci-fi one). Fear and instinct can make a person act it ways that they'd never expect, and not always for the best.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think the Doctor's really "grey", I think he's overtly sentimental and morally righteous as well (Which I appreciate because I've watched too many shows where the characters are cynical and realistic like me). Honestly, there were so many times when I was exasperated by the Doctor's "no killing" rule. If I was the Doctor's companion, I would have (and skilled enough to) killed most of his enemies before they even had a chance to begin their witty banter.
Probably why he doesn't choose companions like me.

[(Anonymous)]

I'd say the Doctor is more salt-and-pepper than grey. He does lots of really good things when he can and some really horrifically awful things (with good intentions) when it breaks down, but generally is never one of those grim cynical businesslike neutral realists. Well, Six and Nine tried to be, but he was pretty bad at it because he was still too sentimental after all :)

Eleven's the closest to being grey that I can remember, but it's hard to pin down how he thinks about it since the narrative has never actually raised the issue of "hey, do you think there's anything iffy about brainwashing the entire human race into killing all the Silents?" and stuff like that. Yet.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm pretty sure the Dream Lord in 'Amy's Choice' indicates Eleven knows very well where he falls on that spectrum.

I guess a lot of us are bad people, then

[nyxelestia]

I tend to be a big picture person, too, and I've been called a bitch for it, too. In the "choosing between one child and five adults, none of whom you know anything about, who would you kill?" scenario, I'd probably kill the child. I'd hate it and it would haunt me for ever, but I'd still do it. And yes, I'd probably kill someone else if it meant saving my loved ones, though I'm also pretty sure I would only do that as a last, last, LAST resort.

You can't be all realism and focus only on the big picture, everyone caught up in it be damned. But you can't be all idealism and focus only on the smaller parts and the people, ignoring everyone else.

The thing about Doctor Who is that Doctor + Companions = Balance. The Doctor is the Realist, his companions will be the Idealists, and together they will work together towards some middle ground. The Doctor didn't stop Pompeii from happening, but he did save a few people from it, which is better than nothing.

This is WHY the Doctor travels with Companions - they keep him in check, and they keep him from turning into the superpowerful automaton that he could very well turn into, either refusing to help people at all or "helping" everyone to the point of destruction. It doesn't always work out so well, but again, it's better than the alternative. The Doctor is a realist, and morally grey, because someone has to be. That's why he tried to surround himself with people who are very morally light, so that someone can keep him from slipping into darkness.

[(Anonymous)]

I think you're just fine. Then again, I'm pretty much like that too, so of course you're just fine because I'm just fine.