[ SECRET POST #2296 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2296 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 056 secrets from Secret Submission Post #328.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

the thing is, SPN writes really, really crappy women characters. They're just bad at it.

This. I usually can't connect or get invested in (or even LIKE, in a few cases) them because they're just so poorly done. The other thing I've noticed is that they're usually Love Interests first, not Characters. I don't mean this in a "boo, they're in my ship!" way, but the fact that they are introduced solely to hook up with someone. OTOH, then you have older characters like Missouri and Ellen and Pam who definitely won't be hooked up (despite good natured flirting with Pam), so they get characterization first. If the hot chracters got characterization first, and then fell in with one of the boys if the chemistry was there, maybe fandom wouldn't scream so much. Or maybe not. But I know I'd like them more if they were characters that existed outside of Love Interest.

[(Anonymous)]

+1 This is not something I would admit outside anon, but I don't really have and Supernatural female characters I love. It's not because of shipping (I'm not a shipper) or because I hate women, it's because the women are written so badly and then are gone so quickly, I rarely have a chance to like them.

I probably liked Ellen best, but she was still such a minor character to the point that I didn't understand fandom's outrage at her and Jo's death (especially because both characters had already essentially been written off the show, and were only brought back to die and get a reaction from fans.)

I've also really liked some of the demon women but that's largely dependent on the actress too.

[meredith44]

I didn't understand fandom's outrage at her and Jo's death (especially because both characters had already essentially been written off the show, and were only brought back to die and get a reaction from fans.)

The fact that they were only brought back to die and get a reaction from fans was precisely why I railed about their deaths. There was no real reason they couldn't have been out somewhere fighting demons and the like instead of brought back just to be killed off.

Granted I also liked Ellen a lot. And Bela. And I disliked the trend of seemingly killing off the few female characters there were while letting the male characters mostly stick around.

[(Anonymous)]

I can understand that, but I think I just came across a lot of fans around that time who were just legitimately sad about it, and I just have trouble being sad when it's too obvious what writers were trying to get from me.

And while I liked them well enough, I didn't love them or really care that they died. I could get pissed about the poor treatment, but I don't know I've, given up? Like Supernatural is just not one of those shows I expect anything better from anymore. I tend to get more irritated when a show that did well with female characters goes downhill, Supernatural has just always been crap at it.

[meredith44]

For me, it, followed by Anna's situation, was pretty much the straw that broke the camel's back. Yes, Supernatural (show and fandom) was often crap at dealing with female characters, but it wasn't quite enough to make me give up on it. That was. I've not watched since.

So, I suppose I'm saying I can see your point. If you'd already given up on SPN being decent for female characters, I can understand why you'd react less to that.

[(Anonymous)]

The fact that they were only brought back to die and get a reaction from fans was precisely why I railed about their deaths.

Basically what the anon above you said. That was my main issue with Ellen and Jo's deaths. They had already been written off; when they died in 510 - and, IIRC, were only brought back in 501 and then again in 510 - it was clear that they had ONLY been brought back to be killed off again. And narratively, I get it - it upped the stakes for Sam and Dean, made them more personally invested in stopping Lucifer, etc. etc. It just sucked though. Not only because they were strong female characters (and I always loved them both back in S2) but because they were part of Sam and Dean's extended family, and their deaths started the theme of Sam and Dean losing everything they love. Well, didn't start it really, but to me, 510 is when the show really started getting depressing. (It's not been consistently depressing since then, but I do think the downward spiral started around that time.)

All of this is a long-winded way of saying why I was affected by Ellen and Jo's deaths. And, FWIW, the other thing for me is that I started watching the show in S6; so I watched the first 5 1/2 seasons in one go, and for me, their deaths felt sudden and abrupt.

I hear you though with the lowered expectations. I haven't gotten there yet, myself, but I understand where you're coming from.

[(Anonymous)]

'The fact that they were only brought back to die and get a reaction from fans was precisely why I railed about their deaths.'

And it's not like this is a trick they're hesitant to pull. Meg was the straw that broke my back.

[meredith44]

I didn't make it to Meg's death. Ellen/Jo/Anna is what did it for me.

But, yes, they are willing to go there frequently.