[ SECRET POST #2317 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2317 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 048 secrets from Secret Submission Post #331.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[iggy]

It really is one of the most blatant two-white-dudes MUST SHIP pairings I've seen. The characters have... one line of interaction (in which they're talking about Thor), and it's the second most popular ship in the fandom.

(That being said, I feel similarly about Loki/Tony, which is also on that list.)

[(Anonymous)]

IA

/bitter Coulson/Fury shipper

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah. If I'm shipping Coulson with anyone, it's Fury or Pepper. One because the whole dying breath thing, and the other because Portland, efficiency and adorable.

[(Anonymous)]

Pssssh. Tony/Loki have some awesome banter/interaction in The Avengers.

[iggy]

Well to be fair I feel this way about Loki/Pretty much anyone.

[(Anonymous)]

Tony/Loki arguably had a fair bit of build-up in Avengers, between their scene together and the way their similarities were built up in the Steve&Tony scenes. Not a lot, really, but at least more than Clint/Coulson, which just sort of ... happened.

[iggy]

I don't actually agree that the Steve and Tony scenes were trying to build up the similarities between Tony and Loki. That's not how that read to me, although I know that is how it was for a lot of fans which is fine.

But no it's not near as random, I do agree.

[(Anonymous)]

Really? The whole 'he's a full-tilt diva' thing, the name written on the sky, Steve very kindly declining to comment. How did that scan for you?

Not slamming you, by the way. I'm just wondering how you interpreted that if the Tony-Loki thing wasn't in it.

[lyssie]

It really is one of the most blatant two-white-dudes MUST SHIP pairings I've seen.

This is exactly my reaction to it (also, they have little to no canon personality, so they're even easier to self-insert/manipulate for the shippers).

(then again, I really can't throw stones with all my crossover femslashing)

[(Anonymous)]

I have no idea why Loki/Tony is even a thing. I mean, a popular thing.

Then again I'm the kind of person who doesn't understand any Tony ship that isn't Tony/Steve, oops.

[(Anonymous)]

I was going to say Loki/Tony is another one of those "two pretty people open for woobiefication" ships plus my own theories on the subject, and thought I could find a nice discussion.

Then I saw you were a Steve/Tony shipper.

Then I was sad.

/my fandom life

[(Anonymous)]

And the fact that I ship Tony/Steve means we can't talk about Loki/Tony? I'm pretty sure the two aren't related.

Now I'm sad, too.

[(Anonymous)]

Nah. It's just that a lot of the complaints I have with Tony/Loki are the same ones I have with Tony/Steve. I don't think we'd be on the same wavelength.

(I wasn't bashing or anything, I promise!)

[(Anonymous)]

But Tony/Steve has a completely different canon basis than Tony/Loki, and is generally written in a very different way? Admittedly there's some pretty bad woobifying Tony/Steve fic (like for any ship in the world), but to my mind these two ships have pretty much zero in common as far as relationship dynamics are concerned. I don't ship Tony/Steve at all in a "omfg they're hot and cute woobies" way. Like, IDK, I don't insist on discussing Tony/Loki with you, I just find your reaction bizarre.

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT

You won't talk to someone because they like a ship that you don't? Classy.

[(Anonymous)]

For me, it's the Misunderstood Genius With Daddy Issues similarity.

Makes me wonder what would have happen to Tony if he'd had a sibling that Howard favored over him. Not excusing it, because Loki dug his own hole, but Tony seems smart enough to understand the sort of motivation that makes starting digging look like a much better idea than it is.

[(Anonymous)]

Eh, for me Tony/Loki (which I also loathe) is more about fandom's obsessive woobification of a particular kind of pretty guy and the assumption that hatred actually does equal love. I dislike it and think it's utterly implausible and ooc, but at least it's based in SOMETHING.

C/C, tho, is SO VERY MUCH rub-white-dick-together, which is why its popularity for me goes from "eh, sad there's so much not-my-ship" to "FOR FUCKSAKE AUUUUGH SHUT UP".

[nyxelestia]

I actually hadn't even known they'd ever interacted AT ALL when I started shipping them. I just heard about it, and then I really liked it because of the personality appeal. (Sort of an opposites attract type thing - uptight and bespoke with snarky and rugged). I figured it was like a Mystrade thing - Mycroft and Lestrade of Sherlock fandom, who were the second largest pairing in Sherlock fandom way back when even though they'd literally never interacted in the show and most likely didn't even know about each others' existences. I was quite pleasantly surprised when I heard Clint and Phil had shared some lines beforehand.

Some pairings with extensive interaction have small followings while others with little to no interaction hit it big. In most fandoms, I've noticed that canon interaction between the characters often has very little to do with the popularity of the pairing. Usually it's just the characters themselves, their histories personalities. If you look at (MCU) Steve/Tony fics, they often have very little to do with the tension built up in the movies - usually it's related to their personalities (very proper hero with the very improper anti-hero), their histories (daddy issues with Steve and Howard, anyone?), and their backgrounds (old-fashioned man out of time vs modern futurist). Usually, even when their canon interaction is brought up it's mostly in relation to those previous not-directly-canon issues rather than the interaction itself.

*shrugs* Really, most of fandom in general tends to just use canon material as a jumping point and run away from there, if you think about it. ANY pairing - from something as popular as Steve/Tony or canonical as Pepper/Tony to as remote as, IDK, Frigga/Tony (most obscure pairing I could think of that actually has fic for it) needs little to nothing - even if it'll happily take a lot - because most of fandom at large doesn't need that much to go on in the first place.

[truxillogical]

Insert image of applauding character here, because that's about as good a run-down of fandom's approach to shipping and fic in general and to Clint/Coulson in particular as one could hope to find.

If canon interaction were so crucial to any fandom, I doubt we'd see the AUs we do.

A while back I noticed the big difference between fangirls and fanboys. I mean, I hate to generalize based on gender, so maybe it should be more in fangirl/fanboy-dominated space or something like that, but anyway...fanboys seem more invested in what physical actions a character took (can Superman beat the Hulk?), whereas fangirls seem more invested in the emotional actions of the character (what do you think Tony went through when he realized he went farther from Earth than any human being ever and slaughtered thousands, if not millions, of the second alien species to make contact with Earth?). It's not a hard-and-fast rule, but it's part of, I guess, what lends fic toward not needing to rely on the canon actions of characters so much as the characters themselves.

Also, y'know, in all the explanations I've ever given for Clint/Coulson, I've almost never actually brought up the most obvious of "uptight and bespoke with snarky and rugged." Silly me.