[ SECRET POST #2337 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2337 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 062 secrets from Secret Submission Post #334.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

because it implies "girliness" is disguising.

[(Anonymous)]

* disgusting

[(Anonymous)]

To some guys, it is. To some women, it is. People like different things. Shocking, I know.

[(Anonymous)]

well actually, I'd find disgust to be a pretty ridiculous reaction towards something traditionally feminine. I can't imagine a similar reaction towards something traditionally marketed to men.

[(Anonymous)]

Really? Cuz I think a lot of women are probably disgusted by half of the things that air on say, Spike TV. If that's even still a thing. I don't have cable anymore

[kippi]

I don't think i would enjoy "BLOOD AND HUNTING: LAWNMOWER MANLINESS EXTRAVAGANZA" any better than "SUPER PINK PASTEL ROMANCE: THE SPARKLEWAKENING" tbh.

[kippi]

And no, I CAN'T tell you why i associate lawnmower with masculinity.

[mekkio]

I kind of like "disguising" better. It makes it sound so Cold War espionage.

Though if that were the case, I think there would be many guys who would do girly stuff in order to fulfill their James Bond fantasies.

[(Anonymous)]

No matter what the internet and tumblr will have you believe, most people still go with certain traits to define what is masculine and feminine. And masculine men will not be caught dead reading a feminine looking book. Hell, I am a woman and would not want to be caught reading some romance novel looking book.

[poisonenvy]

Seriously. And, I like to consider myself pretty proudly nerdy, and the covers of the Wheel of Time books a) put me off reading them for a long time, and b) made me mildly embarassed to read them in public once I did start reading them (so glad my ex made me start reading them).

I'm... definitely one of the people who judges books by their covers and titles (also refused to read Harry Potter for a few years because "Harry Potter" is pretty much the worst title ever).

[(Anonymous)]

God, the WoT covers were bad.

Gosh.

[(Anonymous)]

The rest of us go outside and interact with people too, you know. Like, most people in the world live in southeast asia and aren't buying Marian Keyes novels. But some people, I would hope a good number of people, have bigger priorities than worry about people thinking they're *weak* or *girly* because they're reading a book with a sunrise and cursive script on it.

I'm not actually sure how this was a response to that post, but it was dumb anyway. Being ashamed to be caught reading something not because it is badly written, or shallow, or stupid, but just because it appears traditionally feminine is sad.

[(Anonymous)]

But it is the reality of our world. Boys get picked on (from boys AND girls) for liking feminine books.

[manifold]

Even if you have the guts to, prepare for everyone around you to make stupid assumptions. Back in high school, I was reading The Second Sex in an edition that had this ~pink cover~ and ~flowery cover text~ and EVERYONE THOUGHT IT WAS LADYPORN.

While it does have some explicit quotations from various interviews, diaries, and Anaïs Nin, still preeeeetty sure it would not pass muster as a bodice ripper.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think it necessarily implies that. It implies that some people are not interested in things that are 'girly', not that it's disgusting or wrong.

[(Anonymous)]

but that alone implies a certain thematic quality to 'girly' things. common representation will have you think that 'girly' things (backed up by countless 'chick flicks') consist of vapid romances that highlight the 'sappy' or 'cheesy' stuff and lack any action, powerful emotion, or meaningful message.

obv this isn't true, but the way certain types of media are highlighted as being for women - and those media typically being of this kind - make it embarrassing not only for men to read books that are presented this way, but also for women who do not want people to think they indulge in 'beach read' books. it may largely be an intellectual superiority complex, but it definitely exists and this seems to be the driving force behind it. so when people don't like 'girly' things, they're usually assuming that 'girly' means 'stupid'. not the same as 'disgusting or wrong', maybe, but not any better.

[(Anonymous)]

I cannot even begin to take you seriously. Normally I would laugh at the overreaching with "thematic quality" and assume you're about 18-19 and just finishing your first semester of sociology, but the lack of capitalization makes me think you're probably a lot younger than that and just parroting a phrase you heard one of your high school teachers say.

[(Anonymous)]

Um, I thought anon made some good points.

[(Anonymous)]

yeah dude, I'm curious. Can you at least give us the cliffnotes version of whats wrong with this post?

your bit about the lack of capitalization was seriously weak, but here's your chance to recover!

[(Anonymous)]

you need to get out more. it's a bigger problem than you think.

but please, continue to show us how enlightened and knowledgeable you are. we await it with bated breath.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

i don't know, i think 'girly' does point to an identifiable aesthetic - an unfortunately named and problematic one, because it attributes aesthetic qualities to ineffable gender - but i think when you talk about 'girly', you can identify what that looks like, and when something is marketed with that quality, to some extent, it's a statement about what the work itself is like. now, again, that's complicated in all kinds of ways, but broadly, i think it's safe to say that people basically understand something to be true of works that are marketed in this way. and because of that, some people may just not be interested in the characteristics that are implied by that marketing, not because they're biased, or because 'girliness' is intrinsically disgusting, but because that's just not what interests them thematically. i think there is a problem when publishers market their books too narrowly, when they market books with a broad thematic scope in a way that is stereotypically 'girly' and towards the demographic that likes that sort of thing, but i think that's an essentially commercial decision on their part.

i think there probably is an element of gender in there for some people; i just don't think it's the only element. also i should say that i don't think that the qualities you ascribe to 'girliness' are the ones that i would link it to; i think those qualities you describe are actually qualities of pulp fiction, and the feeling of being ashamed to read books like that is pretty common to pulp fiction in general IMO.

also for reference i am not the person who said you were in high school, that was someone else, being dumb and cruel and trollish

[(Anonymous)]

Did you mean to write "disgusting"?

IA, but if that's how they think, the only way to change their minds is to get them to read it and realize it's not disgusting. Yelling at them and dismissing them for holding those opinions has no effect on their behavior and has never had an effect, (in any social movement, not just feminism).

So if we have to indulge their stereotypes a bit to get them to change their minds and in doing so, destroy the very foundations of the stereotype of girliness = disgusting; rather than rejecting their POV wholesale and thereby making it more likely that they will never, ever change their minds, why NOT go the first route? It won't kill anyone. It won't devalue the work. It's just rather eye-rolling and frustrating.