fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2339 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2339 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I'm not a troll. I just see this word "shame" thrown around on this forum a great deal and I wondered when it became the terrible thing it is portrayed to be now.

Why is there such a backlash against "shame", do you think? A little of it keeps people from making bad/ill-advised choices or making them in public. Why is there such an outcry to eradicate shame from our emotional lexicon?

Makes me think of the movie, Shame with Michael Fassbender.

God,that movie disturbed me so much.

Because often the shame is directed at things people either cannot or should not need to change. Like kinkshaming. You cannot change your kinks, so shame is not going to work. In addition, the vast majority of kinks leave nobody hurt or worse, regardless of how odd you might think it is, so there is hardly a reason to change them.

I agree with you that shame can be a powerful and useful tool for managing social situations, but it should only be directed at behaviour people can help. Like... shaming an asshole that keeps catcalling and otherwise harassing women? Spiffy. Shaming a dude that just happens to have a kink for getting peed on? Idiotic as fuck.

That's not the context it's being used for here, though. At least, I've never seen it used that way in F!S and fandom in general. I've only seen it used in reference to people shaming others for their gender, sexuality, race, religion, body type, etc. and those cases, there's no benefit to shame whatsoever. It's purely phobic and used exclusively to demean others.

I think the backlash against "shame" has less to do with shame itself being bad, and more to do with the things people are shamed for being bad. (For example, shaming women for wearing more revealing clothes, or shaming poor people for using food stamps, or shaming anyone for not being "normal".) If people were only ever made to feel ashamed for actual negative behaviors such as stealing, that'd be great. But our culture demands people feel shame for innocent, harmless things too, like being a woman or having a disability or wearing un-cool clothes.

As in "slut shaming" and "fat shaming" and things like that? Because I don't think even a little shaming for those things is ever good at all. I do however think accusations of it get out of hand a lot (like people being accused of fat shaming just for talking about trying to lose weight. That's not actual fat shaming, even if it inadvertently makes someone feel shame for their own weight).

A little shame is a good thing, but only for things that you actually DID, which have actual negative consequences. Shaming for things you have no control over, like feelings or attributes or the circumstances of your life, or for things that aren't "normal" but don't actually hurt anyone, is toxic as well as pointless.

Shame is to shaming what humility is to humiliation.

It is good to have some shame because it allows society to run more smoothly as you don't aggravate others by being self-entitled. It's not good to be shamed or made to feel like you should be ashamed for expressing yourself in a harmless manner. People should not be punished or derided simply because they choose to exist or be themselves in a manner that is inconsistent with the majority of public society. Diversity should be celebrated.

Nowadays, when people talk about shame, they're referring to the act of others' attempts to make people feel bad about being who they are, not the act of making people who do bad things feel bad. People have every right to live their lives as contentedly as possible so long as it doesn't infringe upon others' rights to do so, as well; they do not deserve to be bombarded by insults simply because of their particular character.

Because there are different kinds of shame. The shame you're talking about? Yeah, it's good in moderation. However, when it's brought up here it's usually because someone either has too much of it, or too little. Otherwise, it's because someone is being shamed for something that they shouldn't be [For example, their gender, race, or sexuality].

Cato the younger, they say, would often go out into the streets after breakfast without shoes or tunic, in order to accustom himself to be ashamed only of what was really shameful, and to ignore men's low opinion of other things.

Most of the shame that people are rallying against is of the latter kind: shame about things that don't really matter, things that people judge people for when they shouldn't. And it's good to be against that kind of shame, because it's bad. Ignore peoples' low opinions of things; be ashamed only of that which is really shameful.

OP

Thank you for the explanations. Far more coherent than my muddled understanding was.

I don't know if I'm confusing shame and embarrassment in my head, now that I look at these answers. I suppose I need to explore that further.

[ SECRET POST #2339 ]

Lots of use of the word "shame"

Re: Lots of use of the word "shame"

Re: Lots of use of the word "shame"

Re: Lots of use of the word "shame"

Re: Lots of use of the word "shame"

Re: Lots of use of the word "shame"

Re: Lots of use of the word "shame"

Re: Lots of use of the word "shame"

Re: Lots of use of the word "shame"

Re: Lots of use of the word "shame"

Re: Lots of use of the word "shame"

Re: Lots of use of the word "shame"