[ SECRET POST #2350 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2350 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 135 secrets from Secret Submission Post #336.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Aaaaagh I know. So much about that show drives me crazy, but especially the way the show presents women and minorities - the way that they're always interposed against a white man, usually Josh, in order to justify themselves and tell them How It Is. and usually, Sorkin's vision of How It Is is some variant of "here is the reason why my fairly moderate compromising sensibility is the right way and everyone who thinks otherwise is a crazy radical idiot". The important thing in the show is the white protagonist's judgment and his understanding of political necessity, and everything a minority might bring up is filtered through that lens. And it's definitely also true in the case of the Charlie plot you're talking about. Because it's pretty much true of every plot involving a woman or a person who's not a white heterosexual male.

There's so much about the show, and Sorkin's writing in general, that I can hardly stand, but I can't stop watching the show and I still have a ton of affection for parts of it and for the characters. I just notice all these things and once you see them, you can't stop seeing them.

So hopefully this'll give you an opportunity to bitch about how someone is too sensitive, even if it's not directed at Mark Watches (god, I can only imagine what his West Wing reviews look like)

[(Anonymous)]

The important thing in the show is the white protagonist's judgment and his understanding of political necessity, and everything a minority might bring up is filtered through that lens.

Uh...you do realize proving political necessity is basically the entire premise of how the American government operates, and that's what the characters are completely and unequivocally constrained by, right? They can't pass a damn thing without convincing a majority of both houses of Congress that it would help them get re-elected. You're bitching about politics dominating a show about politics!

It IS a show about American politics, American politics is dominated by white men, and American politics is democratic, meaning the only way - and I mean the one single ONLY way that has ever worked for every single civil rights movement in America since the Civil War - to affect change in American politics and the American government and America in general to help women and minorities IS for those women and minorities to convince white men of their importance and political necessity.

It could have been done better and portrayed as more problematic - Sorkin was waaaay too "yay the political system is totes awesome!!" - but at the end of the day, the show is about national politics in a nationally-elected political office, not NBC's Primetime Guide to Social Issues, and everything you just bitched about is, unfortunately, exactly what politics is.

The moderateness, OTOH, I think is Sorkin's (or NBC's) way of trying to make sure the show didn't fall into a niche following, given how moderate the general American population (and TV viewing audience) is. In fact, I'm still a bit baffled how the show's ratings managed to get so high given how much to the left it was (which is not even that far to the left at all).

[(Anonymous)]

Um...I don't disagree that the concepts you describe are problematic, but its problematicness is due to these silly little things called "facts about the real world."

I mean, The West Wing is far from perfect, especially with Sorkin's obsession with tacking moral righteousness (rather than simple practical expediency, which is usually the case) onto every political issue, but...really? Did...did you actually, seriously just bash a show that is 90% about the President of the United States' staff trying to convince Congress to pass their agenda because they dare to make their arguments based on minorities' political necessity? Seriously?

I don't mean to be rude, but how exactly do you think Congress passes things in favor of minority rights? Out of the goodness of their hearts? In order to get the warm fuzzies as a reward? Because the President tells them to? Yeah, good luck. Of course minorities have to justify themselves to powerful white heterosexual men every single fucking minute in order to get political gains. They would get nothing done without it.

[(Anonymous)]

It's not just a matter of political expediency, though. If it was a show that was full of harsh realism, I wouldn't have an issue with it. The staff doesn't just decide what is politically possible and expedient; whatever position they take (or whatever position the Reasonable Minority Person takes) is usually the position that is, from the point of view of the show, the position that is true, just, and reasonable. The staffers don't just make decisions based on what is politically expedient and possible; they decide when political necessity is the most significant consideration, and when idealism is appropriate, and what kind of idealism is appropriate. They decide when idealism is fine and something to fight for, and when the concerns of others are pie-in-the-sky foolishness that simply can't be achieved, and the show agrees with them - only the views that they approve of, in the form that they approve of them, are reasonable and acceptable. The staff doesn't just judge what is possible; they judge what is acceptable.

I mean, you say it right there - Sorkin tacks moral righteousness onto political expedience. That's my issue, in a nutshell. Political expedience is mostly brought into the picture to justify times when the idealistic positions of people other than the staff have to be dismissed. Alright - that's simplistic, and I admit it, and there are times when the staff also gets too idealistic, but still. I mean, you see where I'm coming from. I don't have any problems with a show taking place on the basis of political necessity (if I did, I probably wouldn't love The Thick Of It as much as I do) and I don't want everything to be a liberal wonderland. I have an issue with the fact that the show continually chooses sides and it almost always comes down on the side of the staff and any issue that is not within the narrow lens of what the Bartlett administration staff approves of can safely be dismissed.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I don't even watch this show but I love you and your meta-analysis.

[(Anonymous)]

same anon here - wanted to clarify / expand on one thing: I think this dynamic (the combination of expedience and moral righteousness) is something that's present throughout a lot of the show, but I think (in regards the topic OP was talking about) it's especially odious and difficult to watch when Sorkin is dealing with minority issues and representation. It exacerbates an already existing problem.

[(Anonymous)]

And Sorkin has only gotten worse in that tendency on his tv projects since then. I'm actually a little bit reluctant to rewatch The West Wing now.