fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2352 ]

[ SECRET POST #2352 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2352 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 091 secrets from Secret Submission Post #336.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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01. http://i.imgur.com/RJS552Q.png

Well I disagree with you about the show - I mean, it has obvious flaws and it's dated and the writing is stilted at times and some of the actors aren't great, I recognize that, but I think it pretty much overcomes those things by having a lot of smart, kickass, interesting ideas.

But the question I really want to ask, I guess, is whether you were just lying when you squeed about it originally, or what? I really don't understand this secret. "I legitimately liked this show, but even at the time, I didn't like it, and I feel embarrassed when people say they liked it!" I mean, what? Like, seriously, what? Your attitude puzzles and intrigues me. Tell me more.

It's totally okay to accept that what you watched in your younger years may or may not have been total crapcakes.

For instance, when I was five I thought the Power Rangers were /the shit/.

Turns out they're just shit, but what did I know? I just wanted to be a power ranger. YOU CAN'T BEAT THESE SWEET MOVES.

yeah sure i can acknowledge that, but not only does OP not mention that, they actually say they thought it was mediocre at the time. right after saying they really liked it and it 'had them hooked'. i'm so confused anymore.

seriously, it's just an odd dissonance. maybe they're saying they thought it was cheesy worthless fun or something, but it doesn't come across in the secret. i'm not saying OP is being unreasonable (well, OP is being unreasonable in not liking B5, because it's great, but you know what I mean), I just find the way they've stated it strange and confusing. i'm curious.

(no subject)

elialshadowpine - 2013-06-12 00:26 (UTC) - Expand

Not OP, but I often enjoy things I know are mediocre/terrible at the time. Doesn't mean I'm faking liking them, just that I'm not too big to admit that some of the stuff I like is objectively terrible.

Yeah it's possible. I just don't think that (if it was what the OP was thinking) comes across in the secret and the way it's written is kind of dissonant and strange and makes me curious.

I'm not the OP, but...I think I kind of understand what s/he's getting at from my own personal experience with the show.

I love B5. There's something about it that grabbed me and wouldn't let me go, and I find some of it to be brilliant. However, there are aspects of it that are cheesy as hell, and the production value is terrible. Some of the dialogue and subplots are facepalmingly bad (Dr. Franklin's "walkabout?" What the fuck was that?). So, there's a sort of love-hate relationship going on, where I can praise it and cringe at it in the same conversation.

I was hooked because the over-arching storylines meant most episodes ended on some kind of a cliffhanger, so it was hard not to want to tune in again next week. The storylines themselves or, as was more the case, the execution don't need to be all that great for this to work. As for the squee, it was over pretty fluffy stuff. I just don't know what people were seeing when they talk about it being genius.

Actually, from what I gather, what you've just said is the reason it's considered genius. It was one of the first shows to do consistent, pre-planned storylines that were steadily advanced - a television novel, as opposed to an episodic TV show. The storylines themselves aren't necessarily better than most you'd get with TV sci-fi, it was the way the show was structured that marked it as different.

Re: OP

(Anonymous) - 2013-06-12 22:23 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP

ozaline - 2013-06-16 01:44 (UTC) - Expand

On the bright side, at least you have the opportunity to squee with your friends so watching it isn't a total waste of time.

I don't understand your argument. You liked the show back then, but even then you thought it sucked, but now you think it sucks, although you used to not think it sucked? What?

I think I get what you're saying. You enjoyed yourself watching it, but you think it's an objectively bad show.

I'm personally in the same boat with the Dragon Age 2 fandom. I had a blast playing the game and I loved the characters, but it is by far and away the worst game I've ever played (and I've played hundreds of games). I feel so awkward talking to DA2 fans because a lot of them are really invested in thinking its some kind of storytelling masterpiece when it's really, really not.

Just curious, why do you consider the game the worst? Mechanics, or relating to the story? I'll be the first to admit that the basic setting and storyline is horribly generic fantasy, but man, the characters. I love the characters SFM.

Both really. There's too many flaws with it for me to list all of them but off the top of my head...

-Lazy set design. Kirkwall is a fairly static "city" with a smattering of nameless, faceless npcs. The environments are recycled endlessly (not just the dungeons but everywhere). The outdoor zones are lifeless ugly rolling hills with a tree or shrub here and there. DAO was an 'ugly' game in that every environment looked really generic compared to most rpgs, but DAO is lush and detailed compared to DA2.
-Ludicrous amounts of bugs and the worst loading screens I've seen in a current gen title. There is literally no reason every building in Kirkwall couldn't be connected into an 'open world' design, rather than putting a loading screen between every damn room. I haven't seen so many loading screens in a game since the 90s.
-The DA series all have a problem of a lack of 'landmarks' but da2 is much worse than DAO. By that I mean things in game (books, areas to explore, maps, etc.) that give the player a sense of scale and direction in the world. How big is Kirkwall? How many people are killed in x big event? Who the fuck knows, because the player is NEVER shown more than a handful of areas and there's no in-game map or anything. It's impossible to even know where in relation to eachother the various game zones are. How do you get to the wounded coast from Kirkwall? Where are those big scary cliffs in relation to the city and to the gallows? Every area is a disconnected room separated by a loading screen.
-The story was really a clusterfuck. I can appreciate that they were trying to make a more human story rather than 'hero saves the world', and I really liked how each quest built on the last. But the most interesting conflict is resolved in the first half of the story, and the next conflict isn't compelling at all. 'And then the boss was crazy and mutated into its final form' is silly when Final Fantasy does it. It's damn near insulting when I'm expected to accept it as a srs bsns part of the plot.
-The characters, awesome as they are, are done a disservice by the timescale of the plot. I'm supposed to believe that Isabela, the pirate queen who speaks longingly of the sea, has just been bumming around the tavern for three fucking years? That Anders never had to move his illegal mage clinic because of templars? That Fenris and Merrill can survive on fresh air and sunlight because neither of them have jobs? The game takes place over like 7 or 9 years, and while the characters themselves grow their situations never change.
-The friendships and romances felt really lacking compared to DAO. Having pre-set times when it was 'okay' for me to talk to my companions made it seem like I was talking to them once a year, rather than having an ongoing friendship. In DAO you can stop in the middle of the Deep Roads and ask Zev about Antiva or whatever, and sometimes 'unique' conversations will pop up out of the blue as your 'ships progress. Like these were really ongoing dialogues between me and my party. In DA2 you get two conversations per act and you'd better fucking PRAY you selected the right choices for your chosen romance because there's no changing it later.

I have a lot of feelings about this, sorry. :\

(no subject)

elialshadowpine - 2013-06-12 11:10 (UTC) - Expand

same for me with DA2. i thought the game had a LOT of potential that was just never realized due to pressure to release it to capitalize on origins' success. the characters were great but ughhhhhh everything else

My husband spent years talking this show up and finally got me to watch it out of guilt since I forced him to watch Firefly (which he liked). He then proceeded to get mad at me every time I predicted something that was going to happen (Sinclair being Valen, for example, he was mad that that wasn't like a total curveball for me) and that I lost interest after the end of the Shadow War. Really? They just went away? Blah. I still haven't watched more than 2 episodes into the season after that, and I feel kind of bad that I don't have any desire to and he really wants me to.

I'm surprised your husband would even try to show you the 5th season. The rest of season 4 is good, but the 5th and final season is fucking terrible—the only episode of S5 worth watching is the very last one, which you can easily understand without watching the rest of the season.

He keeps talking about how awesome the last episode is, and how I have to watch all the others before I can watch it. So it never gets watched.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-06-12 06:15 (UTC) - Expand

I feel ya, man. I mean, I like the show and all, but...it's not as great as it's made out to be, and some of it is pretty damn bad.

I feel you, anon. At the time I thought B5 was the shit, but years later, I find it almost impossible to watch. Almost nothing about it has aged well—the effects, the makeup, the acting.

The only part that really holds up is the stuff with Londo and G'kar, which totally does hold up, but it's hard to watch four season of an ensemble show just for two characters.

I really appreciate the ground that B5 broke, and I think it represented a very important development for SF TV, but... yeah.

I love you, OP. Many people never do reach the point where they can recognize the flaws in something, love it unapologetically anyway, and do it without needing to try to argue that the flaws don't exist.

I watched B5 for the first time last summer and I loved it. It's frequently cringe-worthy in the details but it still really struck a chord with me. I wish more shows had the level of forethought put into it that B5 did.

I adored it so much when I was young (about fifteen I think), I was hooked up like you, and the Sheridan/Delenn pairing is still a basic measurement for me.

But after all these comments above? I wouldn't dare to re-watch it. It's sad to think about that a story so ground-breaking and unique hadn't aged well.

I hated that show. It was like Battlestar Galactica, only stupid. And I really never could get into Battlestar Galactica, either.

But eh, if someone likes it I'm not going to go out of my way to piss them off about how much I don't. I just...don't have much to say.

So...what I'm getting out of this secret was that you were more interested in having/keeping friends than having an opinion. Yep. Mmk. Y'know, they probably wouldn't have minded so much, if you had just come out and said something. If you're polite and respectful, most people don't react like idiot yaoi fangirls.

Its okay not to like things. Personally, I only got into B5 recently, and it is up there in my top 10 tv shows. I love it. But I can see why it isn't everyone's cup of tea, and I think maybe the fact that I didn't watch it when it was actually on meant that I didn't have nostalgia goggles and could enjoy it for what it was.

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