fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2355 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2355 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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03. [repeat]

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[dangan ronpa]

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[Star Trek: Into Darkness]

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(Les Miserables, The House of Spirits)

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(The Scarlet Pimpernel)

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[Coupling]

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[Norma Bates from Bates Motel]

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

31. [SPOILERS for Naruto]

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32. [SPOILERS for Defiance, Episode 7]

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33. [SPOILERS for Game of Thrones]

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35. [SPOILERS for OFF]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

36. [WARNING for rape]

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37. [WARNING for sexual abuse]

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38. [WARNING for rape]

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39. [WARNING for self harm, suicide]

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40. [WARNING for suicide]

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41. [WARNING for RL shootings, death]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #336.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

It's one of my favorite novels, so I'll chime in as to why I love it.

Yes, Rochester is a d-bag. He's *supposed* to be in order that he might find his redemption. There's a very strong religious theme throughout the novel (Bronte was a staunch Protestant and her faith comes out in her other novels, specifically I'm thinking of Villette). Contrast the two characters - Rochester is duped into marriage vows and justifies himself in searching for pleasure. Jane, her hard life surrounding her, is faced with the reality that she could be with him, no one would know, but her integrity won't allow it. They both have lessons to be learned in their separation, Rochester finds redemption and Jane finds her strength. Then and only then are they able to be together in a true sense.

Some of Rochester's behavior is no doubt influenced by the time period, but you're suppose to get the impression at the end that he's no longer the arrogant prick he was before. He has been humbled, humbled enough to deserve Jane. He's not a complete invalid at the end, but he is broken and that brokenness is a beautiful thing.

That's not to say you'll love the story - and I totally get people not enjoying it, everyone has their tastes in literature (I can't stand Jane Austen). But at the very least, what appeals to me in the story are characters that go through profound changes and make hard choices in the face of insurmountable odds. (As for the book itself, it was somewhat controversial for its time - it demonstrated far too much emotion/sensuality than most found sensible - of course, by our standards it's rather tame).

My problem with that is that neither character really seemed to find redemption, to me. Rochester went on being a douchebag, just a broken douchebag who paid lip service to being apologetic without actually changing the way he related to Jane or anyone else (nor showing real remorse for the utterly awful way he treated the other women in his life), and Jane went on being sanctimoniously self-pitying despite having what even she acknowledges as remarkably good luck for a woman in her position. Their redemption seemed to consist of "OH THEY WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG WHAT FOOLS WE WERE TO DOUBT THEM" from everyone else, and mostly left me just wanting to see St John's missionary work because it had to be more interesting.

(This is not meant to be an indictment of your taste or anything, I just... never understood how they were meant to be redeemed, when nothing in either of their characters seemed to change dramatically at all)

I guess the difference is that I don't see it as him being a d-bag at the end. To some degree, they have a sharp relationship and that's how they are as people (trading jabs, that sort of thing). She plays him pretty good, teasing him into a bit of jealousy (written with an air of humor) - the relationship is far more equitable in the finale. (I'm re-reading the ending here as I type this LOL). If redemption = shift in personality (vs a shift in character), well no, that's not going to happen, but then, I could be reading the ending differently

That's a very interesting perspective, thank you for giving it! I guess I can see now what the appeal in the novel is, but I'd still say the Rochester's newfound humbleness don't really show. It felt like a temporary change that some people go through in the heat of romantic love, know what I mean?

Just my two cents, bc the thing you said about the ending really stood out to me.

In the ending though, he had no idea he was getting Jane back. He was so distraught that he cried her name out three times. Then, even as they spoke, she teased him and led him to the impression that she had a suitor she was seriously entertaining (up to the point in which she finally revealed she had no intention of going with St. John). I would use that as an argument against it being a spontaneous romantic love type action. I think Rochester is a sharp person, and even with redemption that's not going to change, but it's significan that Jane can now dish out as well as he does - there's an equity to the relationship that wasn't there before. He's brought down a few notches and she rises up to the challenge. It's very layered in my head LOL.

Isn't Rochester's redemption sort of... well, imposed by outside forces? I think of redemption as being more internal, with the character in question actively doing things to move themselves on an arc from one point to another. With Rochester, he's not so much trying to redeem himself as he is forcefully propelled by events-- his wife's appearance at the wedding, the fire, etc. He reacts to them, but he doesn't have much agency.

I guess that's why I personally don't have much sympathy for him as a character and I don't particularly like him as a hero. He doesn't do anything particularly heroic.

I think that's a false understanding of redemption. Many people who experience redemption, particularly religious redemption, have external forces at work. My own husband, who had little interest and experience with religion was spurred towards his own via the death of his father. For another friend of mine it was waking up from an alcoholic haze having lost her job and her family. We are often changed by the reactions we have to our circumstances.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that no outside forces were valid in a redemption arc, but in Rochester's case it seems like that's all there is. I don't get a sense that he's undergone any internal transformation of character; he only seems to regret the dire circumstances that his own actions brought him to.

Whew, sorry for the babble, and thank you for humoring a curious anon. :)

[ SECRET POST #2355 ]

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