fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2390 ]

[ SECRET POST #2390 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2390 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

[Karl Urban]

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02.

[Legend of Zelda]

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03.

[Pride and Prejudice]

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04.

[Shingeki no Kyojin]

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05.

[Les dossiers du Bell]

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

06. [SPOILERS for 'Injustice: Gods Among Us'; 'Man of Steel']

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07. [SPOILERS for Welcome to Night Vale]

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08. [SPOILERS for Young Justice]

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09. [SPOILERS for Merlin]

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10. [SPOILERS for Supernatural]

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11. [SPOILERS for Umineko no Naku Koro ni]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

12. [WARNING for incest]

[Felica & Ryon Day, "Co-Optitude"]

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13. [WARNING for incest]

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14. [WARNING for suicide]

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15. [WARNING for abuse]

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Notes:

Sorry for late again, work's a bit busy this week.

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #341.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

AYRT

My point is that people should question the label and why it has value.

Everyone is so attached to the idea of being a part of a family that they don't stop to question why they want to be part of one. And those who do come to the conclusion that "society gives it importance," and this somehow validates the attachment. Why? Why?

Why is the goal to be part of something that separates rather than to get rid of the thing that separates?

Really. You know for a fact that NO ONE has ever thought about it. You're the ONLY one that has reached that level of enlightenment. Okay.

AYRT

No. That is not what I've meant. At all.

I'm just gonna ask you outright. Are you looking to be offended; are you looking to crusade; or are you looking to have a discussion?

I'm looking to have a discussion. If you're not, then let's each of us be on our merry.

Really? We don't question why we want to be a part of a family? What about the security it gives you? Or the fact that you know that family will always be there for you? Or because family is one of the "highest" forms of attachments we have in the world?

The word in itself isn't important per se, but the fact that "close groups of people, related or not" is important and the word we use to explain that is family makes the fact that people saying someone can't be family* is like saying that you can't care that much about that person because you aren't what I personally consider good enough or you don't fit the mould.

And we are human beings we are and have always been pack animals, we want to have a group of people around us that we can depend on, evolutionary that was for survival and now it is a part of us. How many people and to what degree is different from person to person, but the fact that no man is an island is quite true.

So no the word family is not important, but that is the word we use to call the most important group of people in our lives, and because of that it is important to recognise people whom want to be family as family, be it a couple or a single parent or a family with 8 children, it does not matter they are what they choose to call themselves, what matters is that you recognise the fact that they are family.

*Because of whatever reason

AYRT

So no the word family is not important, but that is the word we use to call the most important group of people in our lives, and because of that it is important to recognise people whom want to be family as family, be it a couple or a single parent or a family with 8 children, it does not matter they are what they choose to call themselves, what matters is that you recognise the fact that they are family.

This is a really good point, and it has made me think that it might not really be the word that bothers me; rather, it's the definition of the word, and what that definition means to society at large.

"Family" has baggage. Its tied to notions of kinship that don't necessarily translate into a modern context. For instance, why can't my closest friends be my family? Why do blood ties have to exist? Blood does not guarantee connection, and in some cases, it shouldn't.

We should be able to tie ourselves to whom we wish, without it having to mean anything to others.

Thank you! (I also realize I forgot a part in that paragraph, friends should have been included)

I dunno if it is a society thing or not, but in my life (and for those around me) our family isn't only the ones you are related to but also your close friends and your step family (or foster family and so on), and I will be Aunt to my friends children just like they will be aunts and uncles to my children if I ever have any.

My closest friends are included in what I think of as my family, for me family are the ones whom you invite to your wedding or visits you in the hospital more than once if you are sick also the ones that actually call you on your birthday and so on.

So my definition of family are the people around you whom you that you can depend on to stay with you through good times and bad, and that includes people I am not related to by blood.

There are people I am related to by blood that I don't consider family, because I also use the word relatives which (at least if you use the Norwegian definitions) are the people you are related to, but they are basically strangers and really you don't care about more than you would a random person on the street.

So for me the distinction is:

Family: The people you love and care about (and they do in return) and do not have to be related by blood
Relatives: The people you are related to by blood, but don't really care about, and barely know the names of.

~~woops that got long, I hope I made some kind of sense?~~

AYRT

It's interesting, because this kind of all goes into what I believe, which is that the distinction as it currently exists is a social construction and thus should not matter.

In the US, it's different; relatives and family are basically one and the same. People talk about "chosen family," i.e. their close friends, but a "chosen family" isn't given the same weight as a "family" determined by blood relation. I don't think that it should be this way; I think it's worth questioning what is meant by "family." At the end of the day, what is most important is whom we consider closest.

It's interesting, because this kind of all goes into what I believe, which is that the distinction as it currently exists is a social construction and thus should not matter.

I'd say if you really believe that social constructions should not matter, perhaps you should abstain from the use of socially constructed nouns and verbs.

AYRT

Oh ho ho, touche.

It's kind of a difficult thing, isn't it? Social constructions and distinctions divide us in harmful ways -- but they also allow us to communicate and to protect ourselves. So, how do we determine which constructions are useful and which are not? Who gets to decide? When are distinctions between groups positive, and when are they negative?

It's actually pretty complex.

I'd suppose that we need to start with the assumption that every human has value, and that every connection a human makes has value, but even that can potentially be problematic. I guess it's no wonder that we still struggle with these questions.

That is a distinction that exists in The US (and probably other English speaking* countries), in Norwegian we use both Family and Relatives and they mean two completely (though at times overlapping things), so I guess I come at it a bit differently than you do.

Around here we say that when you grow up you get to choose your family yourself, your relatives on the other hand are harder to get rid of. And with that, family is the people in your life that you love and care about, though it isn't common to say family out loud, more like an implied social thing, if you get what I mean (though I will be called Aunt when my close friends have children). Your best friend is just as important as your aunt or nephew when it comes to society at large.

Also family is the closest people in your life when it comes to blood ties: Parents, siblings, aunts, uncles, fist cousins and grandparents are family the rest of your blood relations are relatives (though a closer translation might be heritage, though you don't have the right tense for that to work, heritages isn't a word? right?). We don't have family reunions we have Relatives/heritages reunions, because family are the ones you interact with often, relatives are those whom share your last name, I go home to visit my family when I go to my aunts, but I meet up with relatives when I meet my second cousin (exceptions are made, especially in smal families*). And the distinction is quite strickt, and as a child you do get corrected if you use the wrong word...

It is a difficult thing to get right and it all comes down to definitions, but I believe that family are whomever the heck you choose to call family and it is up to you whom those are, and no one have the right to tell you differently.

*and quite probably other languages

*In large families not all aunts/uncles and first cousins will be counted under family, only the ones you are close to.

AYRT

I'm kind of having trouble saying things now, because...this is all just so interesting to me, and I really appreciate you sharing it all.

I guess the big thing is that, around here, everyone to whom you have some sort of blood tie is "family," no matter what. "Relatives" and "family" are interchangeable. You can say that your friends and close loved ones are your "chosen family," but the entire reason you toss "chosen" in there is because, if you didn't, people would look at you askance. I personally don't think that that's correct. I rather like the Norwegian system as you've described it quite a bit more than what I've experienced!

"For instance, why can't my closest friends be my family?"

I don't know, why not?

"Why do blood ties have to exist?"

They don't. If you say to me, "they are my family," then they are your family. If you say to me, "they are not my family," then they are not your family.

AYRT

Well...yeah.

We are of one mind. :)

Because my family is, for lack of better words, my history, my culture, and my religion. They are also an important set of moral ties as well.

...are you Asatru, by any chance?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2390 ]

Re: Does a couple without kids count as "a family"?

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Re: Does a couple without kids count as "a family"?

Re: Does a couple without kids count as "a family"?

Re: Does a couple without kids count as "a family"?

Re: Does a couple without kids count as "a family"?

Re: Does a couple without kids count as "a family"?

Re: Does a couple without kids count as "a family"?

Re: Does a couple without kids count as "a family"?

Re: Does a couple without kids count as "a family"?

Re: Does a couple without kids count as "a family"?

Re: Does a couple without kids count as "a family"?

Re: Does a couple without kids count as "a family"?

Re: Does a couple without kids count as "a family"?

Re: Does a couple without kids count as "a family"?