fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2392 ]

[ SECRET POST #2392 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2392 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 064 secrets from Secret Submission Post #342.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I know this is a bad idea but I'm going to do it anyway.

The majority of people responding to secret 12 today seem to feel that anyone who abuses drugs is asking for whatever they get.

The majority of people responding to a GC thread on drug use a while back seemed to feel drug use should be legalized/isn't such a big deal.

These positions do not strike me as entirely compatible. Do others feel differently, or is it different sets of people responding?

Different sets of people.

But even on the legalization threads, you got plenty of people arguing that drug use is wrong and terrible and not only should all drugs be banned and heavily criminalized, but things which are legal now should be banned. It's always at least somewhat present.

They easily compatible if you believe strongly in personal freedom.

People were talking different types of drugs (you had people discussing everything from cannabis to meth).

And you had a large contingent taking the approach of 'I disagree with drug use but knowing in practice exactly how brain dead you would have to be to not appreciate the negative externalities of criminalisation I'm for legalisation'.

I have been meaning to ask you this since last time we discussed illegal drugs, and this seems like a good enough excuse to ask it.

As I am not really familiar with other legal systems in the world, I work from the Norwegian one, and over here if you are caught with drugs for personal use you get fined, and if you do end up in jail because of drugs (or criminal activity connected with drugs), you are offered treatment and so on and it will not affect your ability to get a job when you get released (as long as you are clean, though I haven't heard about drug testing at work), the only part of your record a potential employee is allowed to apply to see is the part related to that job, as such Pedophiles don't get to work with children, violent criminals don't get to work with children, the elderly and so on and today I learnt that Ambulance drivers can't have any driving related offences on their record. Because our society has the view that if you have served your time you are officially a regular citizen and we are done punishing you, also for the less serious crimes you can get it wiped from your record after 5 years.

Which basically means that people whom have done drug related crimes are only prohibited to work in places with access to drugs, so where was I? Oh right I had a question, working out from that do you now see why I don't want to legalize illegal drugs? Though I am for the places we have here in Norway with nurses (and doctors probably) where they give heroin to heroin addicts in a safe and controlled environment (and I wish there was more of them), and it isn't like I would protest it if Marijuana would become legal...

That's good, but only a fraction of it (I mean for starters, why are you even criminalising or fining users in the first place?).

The simple reality is you can't stop drug production, importation, and use. We've poured collectively trillions of pounds into the endeavour, and barely made a dent.

The question then becomes fairly simple. Who do you want to profit off that? People who are going to cut their product to shit, and pour all their gains into organised crime, which inevitably tries to diversify their portfolio into fun things like human trafficking, forced prostitution, fraud, etc - or more legitimate entities who can be held to regulations, and who don't spend all their time killing off the competition.

I mean for context, the use in just California is believed to amount to up to 20% of the drug profits made by the Mexican Cartels. Read up what those Cartels do for kicks when you have some free time.

Well if they didn't fine users (and as I understand it they only focus on sellers, I have seen police officers walk past people taking drugs without caring) they would not have anything to do except catch people driving too fast and complaining about lack of manpower then they would get bored... ~~that was a joke about Norwegian crime rates, and also the fact that they want to make begging illegal, but apparently having designated times when begging is allowed would be too much?~~ anyway, moving on to my serious answer.

I do see where you are coming from, and where my problem with illegal drugs lie is not exactly with the drugs themselves, I just don't want illegal drugs around me, but that is a personality thing and so on and it is too complicated to get into now.

And I would be okay with making illegal drugs legal, as long as it is monitored and the heavy drugs are prescription to people whom are already drug addicts and so on. For all I care, pot could be sold alongside my cigarettes as long as you have to be 18 to buy it.

Because as you mention Drug Cartels are not nice people, heck the Norwegian Hell's Angeles aren't really fluffy kittens and they basically deal in drugs and control the tattoo parlours (sp?) in my old hometown among other things and they are responsible for a lot of our crime over here.

As someone whom have grown up among drug use (and criminals for that matter), I do also know that my uncles would not stop being criminals if drugs became legal, even if some of the crime they commit is to get drugs, so making drugs legal is not a quick fix on those types of crimes.

they would not have anything to do except catch people driving too fast and complaining about lack of manpower then they would get bored

I LOL'd. And then the people they caught driving too fast would say, "Don't you have any REAL criminals to catch?" :-D

Making drugs legal would not stop the illegal drug trade and the problems that go with it. The only way the (American) government would make drugs legal would be if they could heavily tax them. Low-lives would continue to deal at lower prices, and nothing would change. At least not by much.

Yep. Same deal with prostitution. You start imposing health and safety standards, levy taxes, prices are going to go up. But you'd still have the people on street corners, undercutting the official price.

If these issues were easy to fix, people would have fixed them by now. It's always more complicated than it looks at first glance.

Slightly dfferent topics, also most people against drug use tends to stay away from the drug use threads also it completely depends on the first couple of comments, most of us don't want to go against the majority on something that in the grand scheme of things does not affect us and would only case unwanted wank.

I don't see how they're not compatible? There are plenty of stupid, dangerous, deadly things people do that aren't illegal. Just because something is capable of killing someone doesn't mean it needs to be illegal. If someone drives 100 mph in their car and ends up crashing and dying, does that mean cars should be illegal? No, it just means you shouldn't be a fucking idiot.

I think it's more or less the type of drug that is being use. When people say, "Legalize it," they are talking about marijuana. These days grass is seen as being no more dangerous than beer. Beer is legal and enjoyed. The vast population think the same for marijuana.

However, the harder drugs; cocaine, meth and heroin are still seen as taboo. They have not been accepted as workable casual drugs by the mainstream mainly because of what these drugs do to the users and those around the users. The actor from Glee used heroin. A taboo drug. Therefore, more disapproval than would come from being a pot smoker. (Never mind the fact that if he was using pot instead of shooting up, he would still be alive. And probably eating a boat load of Funyins.)

I'm in favor of legalizing all drugs -- and taxing the ever-living fuck out of them. Marijuana and anything similar can be taxed a little lower -- at the same rate as alcohol and/or tobacco. Some of the tax money can go to treatment programs for people who actually want treatment. The rest can go to medical and social programs that probably won't be strained much worse than they are now.

Drugs should be kept illegal.

I feel that people should be allowed to do whatever they want to their bodies, providing it doesn't harm others.

I also feel that when people knowingly engage in dangerous hobbies, they presumably do so with full knowledge of the risks involved. I can't really bring myself to feel sorry for somebody who ended up falling victim to a risk they knew they were taking.

I don't think these are incompatible opinions: I think you should have a right to fuck your body up however you like, but if your drug abuse kills you, I'm not likely to be very sad about it. You did it knowing you could die, and if you didn't consider that, that's really your own fault, isn't it?

Pretty much this. If you take up, say, race car driving and get into an accident? Well, it's a dangerous sport and that's unfortunate, but you did make the decision. It's not like I feel no one should ever be allowed to make that decision just that there are very real consequences to it.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2392 ]

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