fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2393 ]

[ SECRET POST #2393 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2393 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 052 secrets from Secret Submission Post #342.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
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I haven't seen Supernatural in a couple of seasons but I know the basic gist of what's going on. Something that surprised me though was seeing a few people around the fandom saying that Sam was canonically raped by Lucifer in the show. Is this true? If it is, then I'm kind of surprised I haven't seen a whole lot more discussion about it

Lol...Keep this in mind: Supernatural fans are batshit crazy. They're probably crying themselves into a stupor because Jared is having another baby with his "beard" wife. (How many babies will it take for them to realize he isn't totes gay for his co-star? lmao)

I highly doubt he was raped.

well, Hallucifer said things like "Hi, Sam. Long time, no spooning", "You're my bunkmate. My bitch. In every sense of the word." and then later "That's what I'm talking about, Sam. Real interaction again, I miss that—the rapier wit; the wittier rape."

So, you can draw your own conclusions here. You could argue that it's just a hallucination and is therefore just meant to screw with Sam's head or you can argue that even though it's a Hallucination, Sam is drawing from his actual memories of Lucifer in hell and this is a way of admitting to himself some of the horrors he endured. Take it whatever way you want. A lot of the fandom did react to the above quotes, but I am surprised that it wasn't a much bigger deal within the fandom. I would have thought more people would have jumped on it.

If that's really what he said, I'm surprised how can so many people in this thread be so certain that no actual rape occured and that people who say it did are batshit. Kinda makes me wonder what would people think if the same thing was said to a female character.

ayrt

Well, another anon does have a point that lucifer and sam shared a soul in hell. Still, I've seen people make the argument that it's possible that souls and bodies could become separate in the cage and that since the cage was lucifer's domain, anything is possible. Or that lucifer could have commanded Sam's rape by someone else. Honestly, I have no idea and I don't actually remember much about the show during this period so I can't argue for it either way.

Very much untrue and stop listening to the SPN fans. The show they are watching in their heads is not the same that the rest of the world is watching. And in case you didn't know: Destiel is not canon either. Shocking, right?

Spoilers ahoy.

After Sam's soul was gotten out of Lucifer's cage in Hell, Sam had a breakdown and was hallucinating Lucifer all over the place. In one of those instances, Lucifer made a reference to spooning, which fans took to mean sex, and therefore rape.

That's not taking into consideration, however, that Sam and Lucifer's souls were sharing one body while in hell. So spooing would A) likely mean "two souls jammed up against each other in a confined space", and B) be physically impossible while inside the same body.

Also the "wittier rape" line, and the "bitch in every sense of the word" line.

ayrt

I don't take the "wittier rape" line as evidence that a rape (in the strictest sense of the word) occurred, because it followed "rapier wit" and is more likely just a play on words intended to make Sam uncomfortable. The same goes for "you're my bitch". Spending a year in hell at the mercy of two pissed off angels who could do wildly imaginative things to and with Sam's soul... he was Lucifer's bitch.

Now, if you want to go and say that Lucifer's unwelcome intrusion in Sam's mind was rape, you could have an argument there... but most fans seem to be of the opinion that literal physical unwanted sexual contact was going on in the cage, and it's extremely unlikely.

sa

most fans seem to be of the opinion that literal physical unwanted sexual contact was going on in the cage, and it's extremely unlikely

Between Sam and Lucifer, that is, who were sharing a body. It's possible that Michael could have raped Sam via Adam's body, but that's a whole nother can of worms that was never raised in the show.

There's obviously a limit to how "literal physical" anything could have happened, since they never had more than one body between them and most of the time had only one body between Sam, Lucifer, Michael, and Adam, since Sam's body got pulled out almost right away. I interpreted it as a simulated experience, as physically literal as you can get with an imaginary body.

I mean, as physical as anything ever is in hell (or heaven), where no one is supposed to have an actual body.

ayrt

You know, I had completely forgotten that Sam's body was pulled out so early on. That makes it all the more unlikely that rape-as-fandom-is-imagining-it was ever an issue. Alllll kinds of emotional and spiritual trauma, mind rape if you will, oh yes definitely, but I have yet to see anyone argue that "Lucifer fucked with Sam's mind"... I would've preferred that argument.

Well, I don't know. You don't generally see people arguing that Dean's torture in Hell was solely emotional/spiritual, even though his body wasn't there at the time. Nothing's really literal in a place where everyone's a disembodied consciousness. The question is, what did Sam experience? If he remembers Lucifer raping him, that's as real as anything ever is in Hell.

DOES Sam seem to remember it? It's been a while since I saw the episode in question, so I don't remember what his reaction to Lucifer's comments were... and wasn't it right after Lucifer first began to appear? So it's hard to say if whatever reaction he had was because the words hit too close to home, or if it was because, you know, Lucifer was suddenly right there in front of him.

And as for Dean's time in hell, aside from a small group of dedicated fan writers and artists, I hadn't seen much in the way of Dean experiencing rape-like situations.

But the torture was "real", even though it wasn't physical, right?

If you take Hallucifer as an unreliable source, than yeah, there's no evidence other than that. Sam has been extremely unforthcoming and is not likely to become more so.

I don't think they'd be sharing a body in Hell, though. Angels and demons need vessels to have a physical presence on Earth, but I don't think it would be needed in the cage.

It was an internet only special. You only see it for like 5 seconds but it's full on gay porn simulating rape. Can't believe Jared agreed to it. Lucifer's cock had to be artificial.

I came so hard.

Soul-rape, maybe. All kinds of atrocities were committed again Sam and Dean's souls by demons while they were each in Hell, and since souls can apparently feel trauma similar to, if not worse than, physical bodies, I don't see why sexual violation wouldn't be on the laundry list of torture. Frankly, I'm not sure how either of them is still functional.

As other commenters have noted, it's up in the air whether what Sam suffered at Lucifer's hands was literal, physical rape. There's no question he was terribly violated, irrespective of the details; not only his own hallucinations but also remarks made by Castiel, Crowley and Meg made that pretty plain.

But it's also clear from various references made in the show (for example, all of 'Dark Side of the Moon,' Dean talking about picking up a knife in hell to torture people, and Castiel telling Dean that Sam's soul felt "like it had been skinned alive") that disembodied souls have at least an illusion of corporeal reality. So it's entirely possible that Sam could have perceived and remembered any abuses that Lucifer dished out as though they were physically taking place, even if in objective reality it was all occurring on a mental or spiritual level.

I think it was pretty much implied,and everyone explained it better than I did.

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[ SECRET POST #2393 ]

Supernatural Question (rape)

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