[ SECRET POST #2393 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2393 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 052 secrets from Secret Submission Post #342.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Supernatural Question (rape)

[(Anonymous)]

Spoilers ahoy.

After Sam's soul was gotten out of Lucifer's cage in Hell, Sam had a breakdown and was hallucinating Lucifer all over the place. In one of those instances, Lucifer made a reference to spooning, which fans took to mean sex, and therefore rape.

That's not taking into consideration, however, that Sam and Lucifer's souls were sharing one body while in hell. So spooing would A) likely mean "two souls jammed up against each other in a confined space", and B) be physically impossible while inside the same body.

Re: Supernatural Question (rape)

[(Anonymous)]

Also the "wittier rape" line, and the "bitch in every sense of the word" line.

Re: Supernatural Question (rape)

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I don't take the "wittier rape" line as evidence that a rape (in the strictest sense of the word) occurred, because it followed "rapier wit" and is more likely just a play on words intended to make Sam uncomfortable. The same goes for "you're my bitch". Spending a year in hell at the mercy of two pissed off angels who could do wildly imaginative things to and with Sam's soul... he was Lucifer's bitch.

Now, if you want to go and say that Lucifer's unwelcome intrusion in Sam's mind was rape, you could have an argument there... but most fans seem to be of the opinion that literal physical unwanted sexual contact was going on in the cage, and it's extremely unlikely.

Re: Supernatural Question (rape)

[(Anonymous)]

sa

most fans seem to be of the opinion that literal physical unwanted sexual contact was going on in the cage, and it's extremely unlikely

Between Sam and Lucifer, that is, who were sharing a body. It's possible that Michael could have raped Sam via Adam's body, but that's a whole nother can of worms that was never raised in the show.

Re: Supernatural Question (rape)

[(Anonymous)]

There's obviously a limit to how "literal physical" anything could have happened, since they never had more than one body between them and most of the time had only one body between Sam, Lucifer, Michael, and Adam, since Sam's body got pulled out almost right away. I interpreted it as a simulated experience, as physically literal as you can get with an imaginary body.

Re: Supernatural Question (rape)

[(Anonymous)]

I mean, as physical as anything ever is in hell (or heaven), where no one is supposed to have an actual body.

Re: Supernatural Question (rape)

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

You know, I had completely forgotten that Sam's body was pulled out so early on. That makes it all the more unlikely that rape-as-fandom-is-imagining-it was ever an issue. Alllll kinds of emotional and spiritual trauma, mind rape if you will, oh yes definitely, but I have yet to see anyone argue that "Lucifer fucked with Sam's mind"... I would've preferred that argument.

Re: Supernatural Question (rape)

[(Anonymous)]

Well, I don't know. You don't generally see people arguing that Dean's torture in Hell was solely emotional/spiritual, even though his body wasn't there at the time. Nothing's really literal in a place where everyone's a disembodied consciousness. The question is, what did Sam experience? If he remembers Lucifer raping him, that's as real as anything ever is in Hell.

Re: Supernatural Question (rape)

[(Anonymous)]

DOES Sam seem to remember it? It's been a while since I saw the episode in question, so I don't remember what his reaction to Lucifer's comments were... and wasn't it right after Lucifer first began to appear? So it's hard to say if whatever reaction he had was because the words hit too close to home, or if it was because, you know, Lucifer was suddenly right there in front of him.

And as for Dean's time in hell, aside from a small group of dedicated fan writers and artists, I hadn't seen much in the way of Dean experiencing rape-like situations.

Re: Supernatural Question (rape)

[(Anonymous)]

But the torture was "real", even though it wasn't physical, right?

If you take Hallucifer as an unreliable source, than yeah, there's no evidence other than that. Sam has been extremely unforthcoming and is not likely to become more so.

Re: Supernatural Question (rape)

[thursdaymoose]

I don't think they'd be sharing a body in Hell, though. Angels and demons need vessels to have a physical presence on Earth, but I don't think it would be needed in the cage.