fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2406 ]

[ SECRET POST #2406 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2406 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 077 secrets from Secret Submission Post #344.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

We're allowed to be annoyed when people make every character in an entire cast unrealistically 100% gay then insist it's totally canon, so why not trans* too?

Unless we're not allowed to do that any more, for some reason.

For full disclosure, I am also all for slash/femslash. I just hate it when its literally every fucking character in the cast and everyone magically happens to be gay. Suspension of disbelief out the window

You know, if you're queer, everyone you're friends with might be queer, you might live in a queer neighbourhood, sometimes people want to read that you know.

That's nice. Now what are the chances it's an entire basketball/football/whatever team? Literally all of them, who never knew each other beforehand? In, for example, a Japanese high school?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EveryoneIsGay

This isn't about realistic gay narratives or living in SF, it's about characters in non-all-gay situations being shoehorned into EveryoneIsGay. Your point doesn't apply.

Because sometimes I just want to write my queer ships without the baggage I actually deal with IRL. If everyone is queer, the dynamic and conflict is the same as a het pairing is in most series. If Linda and Jake want to hook up in a series, the drama is compatibility, other relationships, and will they/won't they. Now look at any series where its Liam hooking up with Jake and the drama is sexuality crisis, homophobic reactions, and bury-your-gays. If everyone is queer then I can focus on the characters and not the rest.

But why would you have to follow the crisis/homophobia/bury-your-gays formula if you didn't make everyone queer? Why couldn't you write about a place where there are people of various sexualities who don't really care who's sleeping with whom beyond the usual petty "but he's so UGLY" or "what does she see in her?"

this logic doesn't really work, since if you're comfortable writing an AU where everyone is queer then why not write an AU where everyone is open minded enough not to care.

I'm sympathetic but I've only ever read one or two cool AUs where everyone was always queer, compared to hundreds of badfic where every character was paired off with someone of the same sex with no regard to character, plot, or realism.

idk i'm queer and i effing hate the whole "everyone is gay" trope. especially when it's just used as an excuse to get a bunch of male characters to fuck for no reason at all.

same here. it just reeks of fetishization to me.

Are individual authors making the entire cast gay, or is the net effect across the fandom that every character is being written as gay?

I've seen people make accusations of the former in fandoms which are doing more of the latter, and while I understand the situation can kind of feel the same if you're desperate for appreciation of your favorite het pairing, they're not really the same thing at all.

Where did anything about het pairings come in here? Don't tell me you're one of those people who dismiss anyone who's annoyed by any sort of slash or femslash as a disgruntled het fan.

If you read my other comment, I am a fan of slash/femslash. But fics where the entire cast is gay all of a sudden annoy me so yes it's individual authors. The OP was also talking about individual authors. So... I don't know what your point is here.

It came in because that's the context where I've most frequently seen 'stop making the entire cast gay' as hyperbole come from- it may not be only disgruntled het fans doing it, but they tend to be the most vocal.

And no, it wasn't clear in the OP or in the comment that I replied to whether or not this actually was a single source issue or a cumulative effect- your other comment helped, but enough people use 'literally' non-literally/as an intensifier that I still felt the need to ask.

"actual trans* people on tumblr I follow... It's like every character under the sun is trans* for them"

Emphasis mine.

How is this not clear. It's those people that OP follows, not all of fandom. WTF.

There are people who take a cast and make everyone gay in their fic. Literally everyone as in every single person is in a homosexual ship or shown to be homosexual. You know this is a real thing that happens, right? You don't even have to look far. Practically every shounen manga fandom with a cast of mostly men is going to end up that way. There's even a TVTrope about it.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CastFullOfPrettyBoys
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ImprobablyFemaleCast
+
shipping
+
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Pairthespares
=
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EveryoneIsGay

I don't see how being annoyed with everything being 100% gay is the same as everything being annoyed with everything 100% trans.

If you're annoyed by something, you're annoyed by something. OK.
But I wouldn't invite comparisons.

What is this even trying to say?

How are they not similar?

There is a huge overlap in the kinds of discrimination faced by both groups that's why it's the lgbt community* and they're both considered queer.

And everything above about how trans* people use fandom to find the representation they don't have also applies to gay people. They have similar reasons for writing fics and the fics annoy people in similar ways.

I would get it if you were saying "you can't compare 'everyone is trans*' fics to shitty high school AUs."

*Ideally, I mean. Obviously there are a lot of problems within and I'm not saying that cis gay people face all the same issues that trans* people do.

Man I don't know maybe you're wankbaiting in which case I'm gonna invite all the comparisons

to a slumber party at my place

There is a huge overlap in the kinds of discrimination faced by both groups that's why it's the lgbt community* and they're both considered queer.

Tons of political and social "groups" face discrimination all the time, but that doesn't make them the same.

I said there was an overlap and they were similar not that they were exactly the same. In fact there is a footnote that specifically says cis gay people don't face the same issues as trans* people wow. But there are still some ways we relate, like having to come out, being affected by many of the same laws, the fact that many trans* people might think they are gay or gay people think they are trans* because hey it is a confusing world and it's not like schools teach this in depth or there are tons of books and shows that we grow up with that help out, the fact that the people committing the hate crimes certainly don't care about the difference, and, more to the point, the fics are written for the same basic reason and annoy people in the same way.

How is "I'm annoyed by everyone being 100% a Particular Identity" not the same as "I'm annoyed by everyone being 100% a Particular Identity?"

Particular Identity

Being extremely vague isn't helping your point.

Being gay is different from being trans*. Gay individuals face a different set of issues than trans* individuals. However, turning a cast 100% gay is fundamentally the same as turning a cast 100% trans*, because the motivations are fundamentally the same: projection, activism, fetishization, or some combination thereof. There can be a difference between being annoyed by a cast that's been turned 100% gay and a cast that's been turned 100% trans*, in the sense that some people might be annoyed due to a personal dislike for one or the other. But generally, in both cases, people are annoyed by the homogenization and erasure of canon.

Everyone in a story inexplicably having the same trait, any trait at all, in defiance of what you'd expect to see in any real-life situation, is pretty much guaranteed to irritate people. If you're sitting there going "But why is everybody gay/trans/pregnant/wearing identical shoes/refusing to eat anything but Nutella?" and the author doesn't explain it, and all the other authors in your subset of fandom are doing the exact same thing--yeah, that would quickly get annoying as fuck.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2406 ]

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