[ SECRET POST #2407 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2407 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 063 secrets from Secret Submission Post #344.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Ok, I'm sorry, but a Wincest shipper claiming Destiel fans are the worst is honestly hilarious. Your pairing is INCEST, but that hasn't stopped them from bringing it up from day one. The only reason it's died down now is because the fans seem to have realized the show's never going to go there with an incest pairing. Destiel is newer and it's not incest and you know what? Maybe the fans are a little annoying. But they've never shown their disgusting, disturbing manips to the actors, or threatened the actors's wives, etc. etc. Wow. A Wincest shipper calling Destiel fans crazy, that's really something.

And I'm also pretty sure it's Wincest shippers that got actual female characters written off the show. Jo, Bela, Ruby, Anna...all of these characters had longer arcs planned that were cut off abruptly precisely because of the Sam/Dean and "brothers only!" fans. The amount of hate leveled at these otherwise interesting female characters is sickening. I can't think of a single female character Destiel fans hate as much...the only person that comes to mind is Meg, and she's the single longest running female recurring character (or recurring character period- she actually appeared before Bobby on the show). Yeah she got killed off recently, but only after flirting heavily with Cas. And I still see a lot of Destiel fans who don't hate the idea of Meg/Cas.

So, yeah. Basically your post sucks.

[(Anonymous)]

I am a Destiel shipper, and I am one hundred percent certain that Anna was killed off because of Cas. Cas was supposed to die, and Anna would become Dean's angel guide, but Cas was unexpectedly popular.

[(Anonymous)]

I think that's a bit different from Bela, Jo, Ruby et.al, because it was not due to a constant campaign of hate against Anna, but due to Castiel's popularity, and the fact that the writers for some reason thought that Dean and Sam couldn't have two angels on their side. Anna wasn't disliked by the fandom, she was just not as popular as Castiel. OTOH, I still find hate posts against Ruby and Jo...

[(Anonymous)]

Who the fuck hates Jo and Ellen.

What is wrong with people.

PS: I have been wandering the fandom since S6 and I've fortunately managed to steer clear of this. *pats self on shoulder*

[(Anonymous)]

For the record, Anna still gets hate posts too. Number one complaint against her--you'd think it would be that she tried to kill Sam, right? But no. It's the fact that she slept with "Cas's human", and worse still, she dared to touch the Holy Handprint. *Facepalms*

[(Anonymous)]

That has nothing to do with Destiel though. If anything, Dean fans were pissed that he slept with a woman. I doubt Dean/Cas fans had anything to do with Anna being killed off. Though, you're probably right that it was due to Cas's popularity. Still, she could have just been written off at the end of S4, not brought back as evil and then killed in S5.

[(Anonymous)]

You are ALL mad as hatters.

[(Anonymous)]

This really just reads as "my team good, your team bad" to me. Just straight-up.

[(Anonymous)]

There is nothing wrong with consensual incest. (tho I don't ship Wincest because Dean is already way too abusive to Sam in the show, so I can't go there). Not even going to address or correct the rest of your drivel bc I am too busy being sorry you are such a small-minded, sad, and ugly person. Maybe get some therapy.

[mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com]

I agree with your comments about consensual incest.

When will people understand that for a lot of us incest shippers, we ship it consensually? When it's consensual, most of the worst issues that RL incest has, don't exist?

Fictional incest=/=RL incest.

(And I may not be in the SPN fandom any more, but my second pairing at the moment is Durincest, and guess what! They're brothers!)

[(Anonymous)]

Thread OP here- I'm not actually entirely opposed to incest pairings. But just to play devil's advocate here, how would you ever know if something was "consensual" or not? The inherent power differentials in most incestuous pairings are what are really bothersome. Although that's less likely to exist with sibling incest, where the characters are of age and close in age anyway, it would still be hard to tell. Dean's always the "big brother," for example.

[mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com]

It does depend from fic to fic whether a power differential is in play or not. Some fics will play it up as a kink, some fics will play it down.

I will say that Wincest is inherently a problematic relationship anyway, because even in canon the Winchester brothers are portrayed as seriously co-dependent, sometimes to a dangerous extreme.

Other incest ships are not nearly as problematic - if I may cite my current fandom? I often see fics where Fili realizes Kili is his soulmate (or in the in-fandom lingo, his "One") when he reaches the arbitrary point of adulthood, but is stuck having to hide it for the next five years until Kili hits that arbitrary point of adulthood too.

So the question then becomes whether the characters are over the age of consent, according to their culture (I make that qualification, since in LotR/Hobbit fandom, we have races who have longer lifespans than humans, and therefore different ages of adulthood).

YMMV for fics that handwave for teens or equivalent stages of adolescence.

[(Anonymous)]

This is a pretty stupid comment, but if my original comment (thread OP here) came off as defensive, it's because the secret itself talks about how Wincest shippers aren't as bad as Destiel ones.

[mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com]

I think most sane folk - both in the fandom and outside it - agree that no matter where in the shipper landscape, there are a hell of a lot of crazies in the SPN fandom.

[tabaqui]

Ruby had a hugely long arc, which ended rather naturally, i thought, considering that she revealed she had lied to and betrayed Sam and set him up to *free Lucifer*...as if she was going to live after that?

I liked Jo, but they originally wrote her horribly. She got much better once they had her stop acting like a silly teenybopper. Anna was awesome. *sigh*

Bela...hard to say. She had a deal with a demon that came due, so she *did* have to die/disappear to hell. She also betrayed the boys on several occasions and wasn't ever going to be trusted enough to be a love interest. If they hadn't deliberately dumbed the boys (and even Bobby) down in her eps so she could be super-epic-hunter chick, i'd have been happier with her character.

I wanted Meg and Castiel to hook up so bad - that would have been awesome. The boys are just never going to have long-term love interests, their lives don't work that way. Even the 'established' hunters, barring Garth, don't seem to have that (Bobby, Frank, every random hunter we've ever met - they're all loners with no relationships going.)

[(Anonymous)]

Thread OP here. Here's the issue with what you've said: Ruby had a hugely long arc, which ended rather naturally, i thought, considering that she revealed she had lied to and betrayed Sam and set him up to *free Lucifer*

and:

Bela...hard to say. She had a deal with a demon that came due, so she *did* have to die/disappear to hell
That's exactly the point. Those characters were written and given those stories. Bela didn't have to have a demon deal. Ruby - don't even get me started. I loved Ruby in S3, thought she had great potential to be this partially "good", sympathetic demon while still remaining untrustworthy. They didn't have to reveal that she was working against Sam all along. They didn't have to paint her as breaking Sam and Dean up. But, they did.

And that's the point. And fans of the "brothers only" all hate Ruby, to this day, for the damage they perceive her as causing to the Sam/Dean relationship - when in fact it's Sam and Dean that let her get between them.

Anyway, my original point was that the show introduced all these female characters who had the potential to be awesome. And what happened after that is partly the writers fault, true. But the writers were also reacting to the huge fan backlash against them. And that appears, to me, to mostly have come from "Sam & Dean brothers only!" fans, most of whom also ship Wincest.

[tabaqui]

Well, no, they didn't...but...they did. Bela wasn't written as having a deal to get her off the show, she was *conceived* that way. And the same with Ruby - that was her arc.

Frankly, when Ruby was introduced, i thought to myself 'if she's a demon with a 'heart of gold', i'm gonna puke'. I don't know why, but the character grated, both actors. Meg i love. She's up front, she doesn't lie, or say 'i know stuff, but i'm not gonna tell you', she doesn't hide the fact that she's only going along to benefit herself.

Ruby was just too cliche, and i didn't like how she was written or, yes, how her deceit affected the boys. To have her still there, lying and hiding things and tricking them to 'now'? Season eight? Ridiculous. Even at their worst, the boys aren't that stupid.

It's a show about Sam and Dean and how hunting/monsters/angels/demons affects them, and how they deal with that life. Sorry if i'm more interested in that then 'Sam and Dean and how they find romance while hunting monsters'. I love Bobby and Castiel and Ellen and Jo and the Sheriff and Garth but the *best* episodes, to me, are the Sam&Dean episodes. Always have been.

And yes, i like them as a 'ship, but i'm not delusional enough to think they're ever going to 'go there' on the show, or go *anywhere*, for that matter, on the show. The boys will die either alone or with each other, not in a house with kids and a wife and a dog. And that's okay.