fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2454 ]

[ SECRET POST #2454 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2454 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 073 secrets from Secret Submission Post #351.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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ayrt

i'm not objecting to anyone liking slash (don't think OP is either). i think what OP is talking about is people who exclusively read slash. and OP's contention (which i think is true) is that, even in regards to fic, not just porn, it's much more common for women to read m/m and not het than it is for men to read f/f and not het. in other words, there seem to be more women who just won't read het than there are men.

which, i mean, i don't think it's bad (kind of disagree with OP on that i guess), it just seems interesting to me, really.

Part of the appeal of slash for me isn't just the dick on dick action, but the emotionality of two dudes being in love and junk and learning to express those emotions. (It's why all my favorite ships feature emotionally constipated guys fucking things up having all sorts of misunderstandings and sexual tension.) I think that's true for others as well.

That's interesting!

Yep, that's what first intrigued me about dudeslash and it's why I kept reading. We don't get to see male characters expressing feelings like that like even in romance movies it's all about them making the woman love them, like maybe they have one moment where they're like "Look how vulnerable and emotional I am, love me" and then they are just driving in their cool car with the woman.

And I like femslash because it's rare to see women in love with other women. A female knight saving the princess. A lady bachelor who just wants to find that one gal to settle down with. Two women fighting against the ultimate enemy and finding each other in the process. Women calling each other "my wife". We had a thread a short time ago where people were saying "I don't read femslash because women are usually just love interests" and I can see that, I'm sick of that too, but I don't really get it because to me this is hugely different from the typical hollywood female role. But I guess I'm also really biased.

And then I only like het when it's done just right. The characters have to be equally interested in each other, the woman can't like, sacrifice her freedom or dignity. Femdom is good too.

and now you know

'cause it's nursejoy's super short show

Yes. This.

This is what I read slash for, men in relationships. The porn is a bonus, but without the emotions it gets a bit Ikea Sex.

Yes, that was exactly the point I was making. There are a good portion of straight women who like slash who never read het, but I rarely see a straight guy who never reads het.

da

But I can get het anywhere. It's typically het that doesn't handle women in a way I prefer, though. So I tend to read f/f or m/m (or genderswap m/f where the women involved are very close to their canon male characterization). The only het ship I'm passionate about is Buffy/Spike and that's typically written with a dynamic that I'm more likely to find in m/m slash than I do in m/f het. (Buffy tops, btw.)

Not to mention that, in my experience? Straight guys aren't really bothered when female characters are written poorly or as One Trope Wonders. You know the type - the ones that are defined by the fact that they're female. That class, traits, personality, etc are all drilled down into the fact that they're The Chick. That bothers me though. It bothers me a whole fucking lot. I get badly written female characters all the damn time. I love and treasure het fic that does a good job with female characters but I don't come across a whole lot of it. And (just like with m/m or f/f) it tends to be full of the same tropes and dynamics that hound professional media. But at least m/m or f/f handles it in a slightly new way. With m/f, it's just more of the same.

This is a good comment. You're the only person in this thread who answered my question in a convincing way.

Although, in many cases, I've seen a well-developed female character get pushed to the side in favor of an uninteresting two-dimensional male character in terms of shipping, and that makes me somewhat bitter.

I get all the Het I need in canon, really, more of it than I can handle.

I read fan fiction for the slash and the femslash because I'm wired to love them too and try finding that much in canon.

Why do you care what other people read or enjoy? It doesn't affect you in any way.

Thiiiis. It's so much more about the dynamics and characterization. I read a lot of het when I was an undiscerning 13 y.o. but after a while I realised the quality stuff was more likely to be m/m or f/f.

THIS. I so incredibly rarely have found a het story where the female character is depicted in a way I respected even a little bit. Most het I've bothered to read is boring and frustrating and patriarchal for "romantic" reasons, buying into societal norms that irk me.
In fact, I won't read slash where one of the male characters is depicted as giving up his autonomy or is woobie-fied to the extent he has no freaking agency. It pisses me the fuck off every time (and bores me to tears.)

The whole reason I got into slash to begin with is for the equality of the partnership. That and the two cocks. (I do sometimes read femslash, but as I'm a straight woman, not as often.) But if they don't act like equals, I say fuck it and backbutton out of there.

Your opinions. I shares them.

I want equals that het does not often give. I also want less woobie and more IC (over-woobification counts as OOC).

AYRT

over-woobification counts as OOC

Right on. It boggles me that people enjoy reading stuff that's so OOC, but different strokes. Everyone gets something different out of fandom, which is why OP's post is so ridiculous.

And the OP makes assumptions about people finding het "gross" that are inaccurate as far as I'm concerned. I don't find it gross. I often find it offensive to myself politically, yes, or boring, and it pushes my sexism hotbuttons, and my resentment of the Establishment, but I don't find it repulsive.

I just prefer sticking it to the Man. Literarily-speaking.

More and more I am accepting that the porn is not the important part of fanfic for me. I'm here for the romance, while the porn is just a happy bonus (as long as it's well-written). The romance works better if the characters stay as close to In Character as possible, because too far OOC and it stops being them in everything but name.

And I have never subscribed to the "Het is gross!" idea, not even during my most strict slasher days. Just because I'm a straight woman does not mean I have to read het all the time.

Yis! The more IC it is, the more *there* I am, so the more the romance works for me. And the porn works better then anyway, because it's always hotter if I believe in them.

Bull. Shit.

You are ALL fine with One Trope Wonder boys, but because they're the default gender (male), that can't be the defining feature so you're fine with them just being hot and dull as dirt. Stop with your fucking sexism expecting the girls to rise to your impossible standards.

I realize I'm incredibly late to this party, but on the off chance that you come back to this, I just wanted to say THANK YOU. This is exactly what makes me gnash my teeth about the whole damned thing. Not to mention, so many of the people using OA's argument are WRITERS, the ones WRITING the slash fanfic. I mean, really? You only write slash because you hate the shallow female characters, blah blah blah? WRITE THEM WITH MORE DEPTH, THEN!

I hadn't realised your life experiences were the be-all-end-all because it's about 50/50 for both genders on trending towards exclusively reading/watching homo on my side of the world.

So your point is less a point and just something you've seen that is not necessarily true.

um there are plenty of guys who only like lesbian porn. check out /u/

What are you, like sixteen?

What are you, like twelve? You should probably check your reading comprehension. OP's secret pretty clearly states that they're talking about fanfic AS OPPOSED to porn. Two different things.

You know what, OP- I freely admit I AM self-hating about my own girly bits and I still don't see how that's any of your judgemental fucking business. I'm trans/genderqueer and have a lot of dysphoria regarding my breasts, vagina, and secondary sexual characteristics. I don't want reminders of my unwanted body parts in something as physically intimate as porn, and I honestly don't give a damn if that bothers you.

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