Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2013-09-21 03:32 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2013-09-21 03:32 pm
[ SECRET POST #2454 ]
⌈ Secret Post #2454 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 073 secrets from Secret Submission Post #351.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
Re: op
(Anonymous) 2013-09-22 01:18 am (UTC)(link)The shit MRAs complain about are in fact the Patriarchy's fault, and if you really want to fight against that stuff, being a MRA is not the way. Transversal feminism that integrates everyone no matter the cred, social class or sexual condition/gender is the way. I'm sorry some RadFem hurt your pwecious feels so hard you decided to become such scum. Believe me: The majority of us feminist hate RadFems too. They bring a bad rap to the movement.
On the other hand, if you're one of those MRAs that cry bitter tears because gender roles are "getting so blurred" and think women should get back to the kitchen, kindly fuck off with your fedora and go step on a thousand Legos.
OP
(Anonymous) 2013-09-22 02:01 am (UTC)(link)JFC, you think everyone who even sympathizes with some MRA complaints (Prejudices in education against boys, De jure sexism in divorce courts, Sexism with regards to child-support and custody, De jure sexism domestic violence laws, the belief that men can’t be raped or abused, let alone by women) is a some "fedora wearing man".
Re: OP
(Anonymous) 2013-09-22 02:18 am (UTC)(link)Re: OP
(Anonymous) 2013-09-22 03:19 am (UTC)(link)Hello, this is the previous poster, no longer an Anon
Why in the overheated hell would I require you pics to ID yourself? I'm not some 4chan /b/ dweller screaming for TITS OR GTFO. You think I don't know there are indeed women affiliated with the MRA movement? Women with severely internalized misogyny, yeah, but they exist. I wasn't making any assumptions about your gender!
(Though, if you think that tits/vag or XX chromosomes are required to qualify as "a woman", dear god, your issues go deeper than I'm willing to discuss.)
There are prejudices in education against boys, and the widespread belief that men can't be raped or be physically damaged in the context of a relationship. Of course these are things that exist! And know what? Feminists know this. And are fighting against this kind of shit. BECAUSE THIS ISSUES ARE, TOO, CAUSED BY THE PATRIARCHY/KYRIARCHY. Not by women. WOMEN ARE NOT THE ENEMY. As for the "de jure" prejudice in divorce/child custody, there are statistics that prove that at least in the US, the issue is way more complex than you are presenting it to be, and actually the law tends to favor men.
THE PATRIARCHY HURTS BOTH MEN AND WOMEN, AND QUEER/GENDERFLUID INDIVIDUALS, and actually pretty fucking everyone. But to keep things simple, let's talk in binary: for men, yeah, it hurts them and shapes them with a lot of pressure and social expectations, but it also comes with a lot of perks and benefits and I don't see most of them complaining about their lot. Meanwhile, for women, well, we're pretty much screwed in every possible aspect and have to fight nail and tooth to even be recognized in the workforce. And we still don't have equality in the money we get paid for doing the same jobs, for example, and have to endure things like sexual harrassment in the workplace. (And in the streets. And even inside our own homes.)
RadFems, as I said, are another bag of cats entirely, and you SHOULD NOT judge an entire HUGE, ALL-ENCOMPASSING TRANSVERSAL movement that works for equality just because you disagree with an angry but vocal sub-category that's actually a small minory inside the movement.
You may not be a man, but your fedora is right there in plain view. Time to do some introspection.
Re: Hello, this is the previous poster, no longer an Anon
(Anonymous) 2013-09-22 04:11 am (UTC)(link)I have to say, it often doesn't seem like something that feminists really are fighting against. Sometimes it kind of seems like it only comes up when feminists are talking to MRA activists, frankly - especially the education thing. I'm not OP, and I would probably call myself a feminist, but I really think we've kind of given the game away on this one, because the truth is that I don't think we really have fought on any of these issues, except in the very broad sense of opposition to the patriarchy in general. The reason they are able to say these things is that these things have an innate plausibility to them.
I'm not disagreeing with anything in the rest of your quote (the point about women not being the enemy in particular), and I don't even know how problematic this is for feminism. I don't even really know what I'm saying, honestly.
Re: Hello, this is the previous poster, no longer an Anon
Maybe we just hang out with different kinds of feminist groups? Because I've seen this stuff discussed to death both in online and IRL groups. I'd know. I participate of several collectives that deal with gender, give workshops, go to protests and stuff, so no, I'm not just a "Tumblr Activist"/SJW.
The focus is usually, indeed, how the Patriarchy fucks women up, but the people I hang out with are more fond of talking about "Kyriarchy" - A word that encompasses inequality between sexes, genders, social classes, and race issues. So while we are mostly female and do talk more about our experiences as women (or queer individuals), we're no strangers to the damage that the Patriarchy/Kyriarchy does to men and our goal is to educate everyone in how said system(s) are keeping us down. We need men to work as allies, hand in hand with us! Nothing will be accomplished if half the population doesn't give a fuck about realizing the true price of their privilege and help us out.
PS: To clarify, we even have straight cis men in our collectives, and they aren't few. We ain't going to reject anyone willing to take a stand with us on these issues - more like the opposite.
Re: Hello, this is the previous poster, no longer an Anon
(Anonymous) 2013-09-22 04:15 am (UTC)(link)But...you should judge MRAs by the extremist minority? Okay. That makes PERFECT sense!
Re: Hello, this is the previous poster, no longer an Anon
- Not an extremist
- Not anti-feminist/misogyinist
- And doesn't justify men's very valid struggles with a "BUT IT'S THOSE EVIL FEMALES WHO'RE KEEPING US AND 'MURICA DOWN".
Go on, bring me an example. And I'll eat my own words with delicious Tamarindo sauce.
Re: Hello, this is the previous poster, no longer an Anon
(Anonymous) 2013-09-22 12:27 pm (UTC)(link)Look, I appreciate anyone fighting back against the MRA, and I do respect your intention, but the fact is you do not speak for all of us.
Some of us don't consider those to be feminist issues. I for one consider them to be issues caused by men, against men, and therefore not something a feminist should be wasting time against.
Re: Hello, this is the previous poster, no longer an Anon
(Anonymous) 2013-09-22 01:35 pm (UTC)(link)Re: Hello, this is the previous poster, no longer an Anon
As I've repeated ad nauseam in the thread, the Feminism I participate in is transversal and inclusive; and while keeps its focus in women (because is us women who take the brunt of the Patriarchy's bullshit), we have a broader approach. Personally, I wouldn't want to participate in Feminism that didn't discuss issues of class, queer studies, race and religion; and also wouldn't like to participate in a Feminism that treated individual men (not "The Men", just individuals who happen to be male) as the enemy instead of potential allies. Or, since the word "ally" has been hijacked to hell and back by straight people trying to steal the LGTB thunder towards their own agenda while congratulating themselves, I'll use the word "sidekick".
In this narrative of the Feminist Movement, women are the main characters. Sidekicks are helpers, not protagonists, and they shall be kept that way. But we still need them if we want to get shit done, because... well, they are half of the world's population. Education from the early years on is key, but even grown-up men can come to realize the cost of their privilege and join in. With adequate education, we can (and should!) incorporate feminist men into the movement.
Those aren't "issues caused by men" as if men were incorporeal-non-entities. Those are "issues caused by the Patriarchy" that cause harm to individuals. To tumble down the Patriarchy, we must fight against it as a whole, not cherry-pick the battles. It's like going against a hydra, see. But we can agree that, indeed, there are issues that must have priority over others. And those issues that must be prioritized... yes, they are the issues the Patriarchy makes women go through, and have to be fought against first, because the severity and harm they do puts them higher in the "to kill" list.