[ SECRET POST #2470 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2470 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[Homestuck, Teen Wolf, Supernatural and Sherlock]


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03.
[Supernatural]


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04.
[Watashi ga motenai no wa dou kangaetemo omaera ga warui]


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05.
[Agents of SHIELD]


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06.
[Sleepy Hollow]


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07.
[Fullmetal Alchemist]


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08.
[World of Warcraft]


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09.
[Pacific Rim]


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10.
[Richard III in "The White Queen"]


















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 044 secrets from Secret Submission Post #353.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[dragonimp]

You actually highlighted why I find the wrenches disturbing. It's jarring and out of place in a series that otherwise treats violence seriously. In the case of Ranma 1/2, I agree with you.

But that's all beside the point. Treating the slapstick as seriously as the rest of the violence doesn't automatically make it a bashing fic. It depends on how the author handles it and how the author handles the character. But so far I haven't seen any arguments about why it's "bashing" beyond "OMG it's slapstick!!"

[(Anonymous)]

I disagree utterly. FMA makes a clear distinction when it's making a gag out of the violence, and when it's playing something straight. Ranma 1/2 has more comedy, but does the same. If I'm going to be disturbed by Winry's wrenches, I would also have to be disturbed by, say, the Armstrong siblings' chosen method of settling the inheritance issue. Hey, they seemed pretty serious about it at the time, and could have really hurt each other! Only not, because it's a joke.

The real problem with this, though, is that it makes no sense. If we accept that we're taking the wrench's damage capability seriously, then the very first time Winry injured Ed in the series, she would have been called out on it by all these characters who are so appalled by the behavior now (in-story). She has, after all, been doing this for years. If we're playing this gag seriously from the start then the dynamics of their relationship would have changed drastically and they would never have ended up together with nary a comment on it from any of the characters. It's exactly like the Akane example: she's always been like this, and nobody ever batted an eyelash before, but now that they're married it's suddenly treated like a serious problem that no one ever anticipated. This coupled with the fact that the fic is actually a romance based around a different ship makes it clear that this isn't a deconstruction for its own sake, it's an agenda to facilitate a rival pairing. Tale as old as fandom time.

[dragonimp]

The wrenches break the story for me; they don't for you. That's fine. That doesn't make either interpretation wrong, and it doesn't make an author treating them seriously "wrong." And it still doesn't automatically make it bashing. If your complaint is that "the fic is actually a romance based around a different ship" and "it's an agenda to facilitate a rival pairing" that is also fine, I am not arguing with that. It didn't bother me because of how the story progressed, but that's beside the point. You still can't judge whether it is or is not a "Winry bashing" fic on that simple and incomplete description.

[(Anonymous)]

Hey, if you're going to play the "for me, not for you" card, then I can just put down the bottom line as follows: for me, a fic contains character bashing if it invents and/or flanderizes a character's perceived negative trait (in a nonsensical way from canon's perspective, as I already pointed out) in order to break up an existing pairing and pave the way for a rival ship. There are so many ways to break a couple up without turning one half into a domestic abuser; considering the general consensus on abuse, this guarantees no reader could possibly work up any sympathy for the offending party. It's unnecessary and ugly.

[dragonimp]

Winry does come off sympathetic in this fic, but I do understand your point. I'm not telling you not to be bothered by that. I don't think it's fair to call it inventing or flanderizing when it's a trait pulled directly from canon (I don't think the line between this bit of slapstick actually happened and this bit of slapstick didn't really happen is all that clear, and is up to the reader to interpret), and I get irritated when this is called a "bashing" fic because Winry is treated sympathetically. My big beef in this whole thread is a)the OP is exaggerating to the point where I'm not even sure what they're referring to, and b)other people dumping on this fic based on very little and misleading information.

[(Anonymous)]

Believe it or not, I have read the fic, or at least the first part which deals with the breakup. Enough that I know the author actually brings up a few interesting ideas regarding the breakdown of the marriage... but then chose to follow up with the domestic violence instead. They could have gone with the angle that Ed and Winry were two kids who rushed into this thing and weren't ready and later discovered that they wanted different things out of life, and that would have been fine, if not even made for a stronger story. The violence is shock value at best and character bashing at worst. Forget the slapstick-or-not argument for a moment, it still seemed out of place simply because it's not a new development in their relationship, so Ed should have seen it coming long before marrying Winry rather than allowing it to blindside him like that.

[dragonimp]

They could have gone with the angle that Ed and Winry were two kids who rushed into this thing and weren't ready and later discovered that they wanted different things out of life, and that would have been fine, if not even made for a stronger story.

But that's exactly where the fic does go.

She specifically wanted to deal with the abusive (and how both sides were contributing to the poor relationship dynamic) because the portrayal in the manga of Winry repeatedly hitting Ed (and Al, and others for that matter) bothered her. Your point about it not being a new development is valid, but the fic doesn't really treat is as a new development - it treats it as something that escalated out of control. Meaning, he was used to her hitting him, but this time she hit him hard enough to do damage - in fact, the reason it blindsided him was because he was used to her hitting him. It's hardly the only way to interpret Ed and Winry's relationship, but it is valid - she didn't invent any of the violence.

[(Anonymous)]

I guess if you are already convinced that Winry's canon behavior is consistent with abuse then you'd be able to accept such a development as feasible. To me, it's balls-out OOC-ness that leaves a bad taste from the get-go, and I really couldn't care what happened to the characters after that because these weren't the characters I knew and loved anymore. Sorry, I don't really care for holding Winry alone to a standard that no other character is submitted to just to dump on her character. You've mentioned you're sick of this story and author being raked through the coals, but frankly this kind of writing and character treatment need no defense. It's super common.

[dragonimp]

My point still stands: she didn't invent any of it. I also don't see how it's a case of singling Winry out, since the story pretty much treats it all seriously.

[likeadeuce]

So, question, does the story acknowledge any of the way's Ed and ROY'S relationship is problematic? I don't even mean the age difference, I mean "Roy is a war criminal who enables Ed to participate in a morally dubious organization"? Or is slapstick wrench throwing the only negative dynamic that needs to be dealt with?

I mean, I don't know what canon we're going with but in first anime ROY MURDERED WINRY'S PARENTS. So focusing on Winry's negatives in order to set Roy up as an alternative seems odd to me. (I'm not particularly just talking about this story but that it seems to be a long-standing fandom trope, from what I can tell.)

[dragonimp]

It's Mangahood based. I don't remember if it specifically deals with Roy pulling Ed into the military, but it does go into Roy's past and Ishval and some moral issues around that. It also brings up Ed's temper and his tendency to run from problems (such as burning their house down) and the strain that that puts on his relationships. I'm not going to pretend there isn't a Roy/Ed bias to the fic; but it's not as one-sided as some are trying to portray it.

[likeadeuce]

Heh, I went and looked at the fic summaries and realized I had avoided the story because it's labeled 'one-sided Riza/Roy' and I can't even comprehend what that's supposed to mean.

[dragonimp]

Meaning Riza has feelings for Roy which Roy doesn't return. It wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea. It's fair reason to avoid it.

[likeadeuce]

I just think it's hilarious to announce what you DON'T ship in the header.

[dragonimp]

I don't think it's an anti-ship tag so much as warning people that it deals with a one-sided version of a popular 'ship. A reader who, say, likes Roy/Ed and also likes Royai might not want unrequited Royai in their Roy/Ed fic, so she's trying to give them a heads-up. Because of the amount of hate she's gotten she kinda over-warns.

[likeadeuce]

Where are you seeing all this hate?

ETA: Personally, I think 'one-sided' sounds much more insulting toward Riza than 'unrequited' does. I've seen the latter used to tag before, not the former.

[dragonimp]

She posts on several different coms as well as ff.net and AO3, and I can't keep track of it all. I know some of the negative reactions have come from the fm_alchemist com. I don't mean to sound like it's something that happens every day, it's more that it's been high in comparison to her other fics.

[likeadeuce]

Huh, I've never really seen any negativity on that comm (as opposed to on tumblr), which is why I was curious. Not doubting you, just wondering where this had been discussed before.