fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2475 ]

[ SECRET POST #2475 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2475 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02. [repeat]

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03.

[Supernatural, Watchmen]

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04.

[a case of exploding mangoes (2008 novel)]

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05.

[Brothers in Arms]

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06.

[Agents of SHIELD ]

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07.

[Transformers: IDW Generation One]

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08.

[Sarah Michelle Gellar]

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09.

[Young Guns 2]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 057 secrets from Secret Submission Post #354.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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I was thinking the other day about how people say "it's God's plan" when talking about a horrible situation. It seems to make them feel better about it, and that's cool. But how does that work with free will? If everything is planned out by God, we can't be in control. So... then how are we responsible for our actions? How can we be judged for how we act?

I am gonna comment as a not very religious person [parents Catholic and grew up going to a Baptist church (stopped at age like...10)]. If you wanted to rationalize how 'God's plan' works with free will, it is pretty easy. God gives people obstacles to overcome of their own free will. So a parent dies (which was God's plan), it is now up to you to use your free will and react.

But loads of these situations are cause BY humans. If it was God's plan, it implies the people who were "responsible" for the situation actually didn't have free will at all.

I don't know, it is just a phrase to make people feel better. Maybe God is a DJ? http://youtu.be/BfX-s4dcYBg

Situations caused by people were caused by their free will too.

The cycle of what caused what reaction in people can go back and back and back and it's all a huge complex mess and it doesn't have a start unless you're the type of religious person who believes in Creation and the Fall of Lucifer, which could be considered as first causes.

And in all the mess of who caused what, we still have the Free Will to react however we do.

Re: Honest curiosity about something in religion...

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-13 06:10 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Honest curiosity about something in religion...

mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com - 2013-10-13 10:32 (UTC) - Expand

Oh, and no human can necessarily know the full effect of everything we do. We may do something and never see all the effects, but we still did it of our own free will.

But even if you don't ever know the full effect of anything you do, you can still choose to do something good over something bad.

And in the end, if you have a good relationship with God, you probably are inclined to choose the good option anyway.

Catholics believe in free will
Protestants believe in predestination, in the sense that God already knows who's going to end up in hell or in heaven because He knows everything
Don't know about others

Dude, predestination just means you're one of the few [or, rather, you *might* be one of the few] who has the ability to get into heaven. You still have to live a "righteous" life in order to actually get there. So free will is still very much in play.

That's not really free will, just the illusion of it. If God already knows who ends up in heaven or in hell, no matter how you act it was already designed for you. If you acted badly and therefore ended up in hell it didn't matter how you acted in the first place, God already decided it for you.

Re: Honest curiosity about something in religion...

insanenoodlyguy - 2013-10-13 03:55 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Honest curiosity about something in religion...

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-13 06:02 (UTC) - Expand

Oh ok, sorry
I don't know much about how Protestantism works and it shows

Re: Honest curiosity about something in religion...

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-13 03:24 (UTC) - Expand

*Some kinds of Protestantism (Calvinism, for example). Some have different degrees of free will, apparently.

The actual difference between Catholicism and Protestantism (as I was taught by the preacher I spoke with) is that Protestants follow "Sola Fide", or "faith alone", meaning they don't need to performs good works or partake in formal rites, but that belief itself is sufficient. Catholicism, on the other hand, requires both true belief and good works to be truly heaven-bound.

As a Protestant, I disagree. I believe in Free Will. I also believe God can see everything, so yeah, He can see who will go where, but we still get to choose for ourselves.

that's one of life's great mysteries, isn't it?

It depends on what religion and sect you're talking about. For some religions, yes, it is contradictory to say that it is part of God's plan. For others, both exist together and how they do so is paradoxical and mysterious. For others, free will doesn't really exist, or is relatively unimportant. It all depends.

Basically, He causes stuff to happen, but how you react to it/your actions in general are up to *you*.

Causes, or allows by virtue of someone else exercising their free will in a way that affects other people. I think bad things happen to good people sometimes because not all people use the blessing of free will wisely, but it is a gift that God is not going to take back.

I agree with you.

It's more complicated than that phrase suggests. Here's the way I understand it. Humans have always been responsible for their actions, but because we screwed it up from the beginning, horrible situations have always been part of our reality. But God uses those situations to bring about something good, even if we can't see the effects right away or if they're on a much smaller scale than what we would have liked. And... yeah, like the others have been saying, how we react to things is up to us.

My feelings on that are... complex. Essentially I don't think God has a plan specifically; I believe only in free will. But I believe some things were just... meant to happen, if that makes sense?

However, I dislike saying it in face of hard times.God didn't plan for my friend to be a widow in her thirties. God didn't plan for my grandfather to die before I could meet him. God didn't plan for the Boston Marathon bombings. To say God did that is both an insult to God and to the victims, because it doesn't make it better to imply they died because the guy upstairs needed it to be that way.

There's a Jewish story about this, kind of... Basically according to the Torah the Pharoah in Egypt enslaved the Jews and later got punished by the Ten Plagues. So he starting arguing with G-d and saying "Why are you punishing me for this, when it was your plan to punish them anyway?" and G-d responded, "Yes, someone had to punish them but it didn't have to be you."

That story isn't in the written Torah though, not sure where it comes from. And I personally am not that religious or interested in thinking of horrible situations as G-d's plan.

"G-d"

get

out

Re: Honest curiosity about something in religion...

rosehiptea - 2013-10-13 00:38 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Honest curiosity about something in religion...

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-13 01:44 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Honest curiosity about something in religion...

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-13 01:58 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Honest curiosity about something in religion...

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-13 05:32 (UTC) - Expand

But then doesn't that imply that he would have punished ANYONE who acted as the villain in his plan?

Re: Honest curiosity about something in religion...

rosehiptea - 2013-10-13 05:17 (UTC) - Expand

Hmm idk if I've ever used that phrase exactly--for the reasons you said. But I do understand it more as "God has a plan for you in this situation." Less like, "God has a plan, and killing your mom is part of the plan so stop whining" and more "you're not flailing around alone trying to deal with this, God has a way to see you through it".

The way I was taught is that God knows everything that's going to happen but doesn't make you do anything. Like He knows what action you will choose to take but doesn't make you take that action.

I think the idea that God knows everything that is going to happen yet humans have Free Will and decide to do things that have all sorts of effects on other people looks like a huge paradox to us humans because we have a limited viewpoint.

I try not to let it twist my mind up by saying to myself "It works for God because He's God."

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