[ SECRET POST #2485 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2485 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.
[Sleepy Hollow]


__________________________________________________



03.
[Twilight]


__________________________________________________



04.
[Lana Del Rey / Marina and the Diamonds]


__________________________________________________



05.
[Long Way Round, Long Way Down]


__________________________________________________



06.
[Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.]


__________________________________________________



07.
[Star Trek: The Next Generation]


__________________________________________________



08.
[Pacific Rim]


__________________________________________________



09.
[Game of Thrones]


__________________________________________________



10.
[Captain Marvel]


















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 034 secrets from Secret Submission Post #355.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[chardmonster]

Would this bother you so much in dialog?

I can totally see misspelling something because that's how the character says it--I do that in rp sometimes. It's part of getting dialect right. But I wouldn't misspell something in descriptive text.

Granted maybe you're taking tumblr too seriously?

[fingalsanteater]

No fun allowed on Tumblr. People should call it No-Funblr.

[(Anonymous)]

are you also the kind person who writes out all manner of dialects and accents phonetically so your readers omg KNOW what the characters sound like?

because no.

part of getting the dialect right is not getting the spelling wrong.

[chardmonster]

...I don't think you've read a lot of books, dude. There are multiple ways to get a dialect right. One way is to misspell certain words that are said differently. It's one way to convey that "lieutenant" is being pronounced "leftenant." The other way is a potentially clunky sort of thing: "He pronounced it leftenant."

I'm not talking going full Brian Jacques and writing difficult to read mole accents, here. Are you one of those people who thinks words are holy? That dropping a G here or there insults your sensibilities? Why do you hate Hagrid?

[(Anonymous)]

Aww man, Brian Jacques. I ain't gonna lie, I ate that shit up with a spoon. My mom couldn't read any of the accents at all, so I read and understood them while cackling gleefully to myself like I was codebreaking a secret message or something. Good times.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, I'd say they have read a lot of books. I've read a lot of books too - lots and lots of Age of Sail books, Patrick O'Brien and that sort of thing - and in not one of them was "Lieutenant" spelt any other way than "Lieutenant". Because if you write out accents phonetically, it looks god-damned stupid, and English people are no less phonetic than Americans, and -

Wait, why the fuck am I replying to a known dingbat?

[chardmonster]

You mean Patrick O'Brien, the British guy talking about British people?

[(Anonymous)]

Yeh know, Chard, I hate Hagrid sommat fierce, an' I think this migh' be why.

[ariakas]

It's nooooooot part of getting "dialect" right, though. If that were true every single American character in every fic should have "water" written "wahder" every time they said the word. Every British soldier would be part of the "milluhtree". Noooooo. Noooooooooooooo. We know how Americans pronounce water and how British people pronounce military. We can read their dialogue thusly in our own heads. It betrays the author's intended audience when they allow certain characters to speak "normally" but intentionally misspell the words of other characters of different backgrounds to mark them as "other". And it makes one look like a maaaasssive douchetool to the people in the "other" group: "Oh you think I say 'wahder' do you? Well fuck you limey, you don't say 'water' either, where's the 'uo'ah' or 'watah' for your British characters?" (And the inverse.)

I can't fucking stand it when people write out accents phonetically. Syntax, people. Just use syntax. If two characters are speaking different dialects, use the corresponding syntax (as well as any words or usage unique to that dialect) and people will know how they are pronouncing those words differently. A simple "lorry" or "in hospital" or "maths" does more than all of the gibberish and apostrophes ever could.

*kicks over table*

[littlestbirds]

This so much, thanks for explaining far better than I could. The same if they speak English as an additional language too I think? If someone speaks English fluently and you're constantly bringing attention to their pronunciations it feels really awkward and condescending to me, but for some reason fandom thinks it's adorable to do that with eastern European accents.

[ariakas]

Oh in my fandom there's a character with a mild Scottish accent that some fic authors like to transliterate as if he was Fat Bastard and it drives me up the wall. For one, he's not actually talking like that in the game, that's just how ignorant fans think Scottish people "sound". For two, we know what his accent sounds like! His lines are going to read like that in our heads. Even if someone had never played the game before in their lives (though why they're reading fanfiction for it I have no idea) they could glean from the name "MacTavish", the fact that he comes from Scotland, his syntax, and the occasional "aye" and the like that he's fucking Scottish and is speaking with a Scottish accent.

...It's mildly tempting to write a parody fic from his POV with the American characters transcribed with their actual pronunciation, saying things like "wahder" and "lootenant" and "tuhmaydo".

[(Anonymous)]

To be fair, I've seen people do this with specific American accents too, trying to write out a strong New York or Brooklyn accent, etc. And I've seen writers who I know are British write out dialect for characters with specific British accents as well (people writing Tom McNair from Being Human come to mind immediately - I'm not up on my accents, but google tells me it's a Derby or Midlands accent and trying to read it written out is painful and unnecessary.)

Stephen King, when writing a character with a thick Maine accent for example, will often take a moment at some point to note how something a character says sounds to another character, and then move on from there without typing everything out in that accent. This is a far less annoying approach, in my opinion (though I think often even that is unnecessary if it's a character in fanfic where the audience is already familiar with the character. Syntax and vocabulary should definitely be enough)

[chardmonster]

FOR FUCK'S SAKE

I'm talking about spelling a single word differently, not THE ENTIRE SENTENCE. We are also talking about SLEEPY HOLLOW FANFICTION, where the entire theme of Ichabod is that he's other. For the record, that character I write? Just drops a G sometimes. I'm not writing weird shit.

Zora Neale Hurston says hi, though.

[ariakas]

O, wehl if its juhst wahn werd then ai cuhmpleetlee uhndirstahnd. Spelling too showe funehtic pruhnuhnsee'ayshuhn iz ihmport'nt. Uhtherwaiz how wud yu nowe wuht thuh kehrahtihr tahks laik?

[chardmonster]

I just find it's a less clunky way to go about it than to just spell out "HE HAD AN ACCENT, THE ACCENT WAS THIS." Sometimes syntax isn't different enough.

Also I will now forever picture you as talking with a great deal of phlegm. You painted a vivid picture in my mind, Ariakas!

[ariakas]

There is absolutely no need to say "he had an accent, the accent was this"
if the author uses the right syntax, though. E.g. the aforementioned "maths" or "in hospital". We know that character isn't American. Immediately.

And syntax sure as shit is different enough if it's "standard" English versus American accents we're talking about. More importantly, Canadians (who have any contact with the word outside of American media), with a accent virtually identical to what many consider American Standard also pronounce "lieutenant" the British way, so writing out a phonetic "leftenant" actually doesn't give an indication of what the character sounds like, without syntax. And if you use correct syntax, there's no need for misspellings.

[chardmonster]

So let me get this straight. You are arguing that there is only one proper way to write dialog. That there are rules that must be followed.

What do you do with an audience that isn't going to pick up syntax differences?

[ariakas]

You literally said that misspelling words was "part of getting the dialect right". I disagreed.

As mentioned - several times now, to which you have yet to respond - "maths" is not going to not be "picked up" by anyone who has ever heard the dialects in question. And if someone hasn't heard said dialect(s), all the apostrophes and gibberish in the world aren't going to help them.

Let's review:

"Misspell words to get the dialect right!" *no explanation*

"No, syntax is better!" *explanation*

"ARE YOU SAYING THERE'S ONE WAY TO WRITE DIALOG?!!? YOU DON'T CONTROL ME!!! MY DEFINITIVE STATEMENTS ABOUT DIALOG ARE SUGGESTIONS AND YOURS ARE PRESCRIPTIONS!!! ONLY A SITH DEALS IN ABSOLUTES!!!"

If you got nothing, man, you got nothing. We're having a debate about stylistic preferences and their reasoning and all you can pull is "YOU DON'T OWN ME!!!"? Just accept it and bow out.

[chardmonster]

I must have lost track of the argument in the midst of your grandiose posturing. I never meant to imply that there is only one "right" way to do dialog; I was imprecise. I'm sorry you thought that.

If you got nothing, man, you got nothing. We're having a debate about stylistic preferences and their reasoning and all you can pull is "YOU DON'T OWN ME!!!"? Just accept it and bow out.

God forbid we have a halfway friendly conversation without someone declaring victory

[ariakas]

"*kicks over table*" is what qualifies as "grandiose posturing" these days? Man, am I ever out of touch.

"I forgot what I said and started posting *facepalm* gifs in response to your earnest attempts to explain your position - you're the reason we can only have arguments and not friendly discussions around here!"

...Seriously, though. Seriously.

[chardmonster]

I'm kind of worried you think a star trek gif is how I express actual anger.

Anyway I was talking about your words, not the emotes.

[ariakas]

I did forget that my definitive statements about dialogue were totalitarian prescriptions about literature and yours were merely stated preferences, as I said. If someone can describe the reasons behind their point of view to another person, it does becomes a fact.

[dragonimp]

Steinbeck must drive you batshit.

[(Anonymous)]

I think you mean 'dialock' with your shitty misspelling of that word.