[ SECRET POST #2494 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2494 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[Noel Fielding, formerly of The Mighty Boosh]


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03.
[American Horror Story: Coven]


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04.
[Once Upon A Time]


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05.
[The Caves of Steel]


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06.
[Steam Powered Giraffe]


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07.


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08.


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09.


















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 009 secrets from Secret Submission Post #356.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Or...because...Aurora is already in a committed, loving relationship? And that relationship has fans and it might be incredibly assholish of the Sleeping Warrior crowd to actively want one (canon) ship to be torn apart for their ship?

I don't know what you're thinking, but Aurora/Mulan was *probably* not intended to be canon until they started really writing season 3. It was probably the intention that she did love Phillip, and there would be a love triangle about that. I think the baby was introduced for the writers to basically say "Look, no chance of it! Mulan has to give up!".

[(Anonymous)]

This isn't just about shipping though it's also about queer representation. It isn't common to see a legitimate lesbian/gay pairing on a television show so the idea of Mulan/Aurora becoming canon means something different than Aurora/Phillip staying canon. I'm just surprised the writers even suggested it explicitly. Even if it's just one-sided on Mulan's part.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, first, honestly speaking, slash shippers (most of 'em) are not about queer representation. So it's a bit ingenuous bringing that up.

Secondly, Mulan could hook up with some other female character that isn't not attached and that would satisfy both parties.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

A lot of them won't be satisfied unless they make specifically make Aurora/Mulan canon. They'd throw a shitfit if Mulan got together with a woman who wasn't Aurora. They don't care about queer representation, they only want their particular ship canon.

[(Anonymous)]

A lot of the Sleeping Warrior fandom are lesbians though (not the same as male slash fangirls). And Mulan could hook up with some other female character but this character would be someone who we won't see her develop a relationship with (unlike Aurora). But it would be better than nothing.

[(Anonymous)]

Why do you say that? Can't she just have adventures with Kida?





...i like kida...

[(Anonymous)]

Mulan has really limited screentime so I doubt something like that would happen.

[(Anonymous)]

That's entirely dependent on whether they choose to do anything with her.

After all, Aurora and Mulan have limited screentime altogether, and they still have a big following.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, first, honestly speaking, slash shippers (most of 'em) are not about queer representation. So it's a bit ingenuous bringing that up.

But we're not talking about slash shippers, we're talking about femslash shippers most of whom are gay or bi women. So by that very nature femslash shippers are essentially asking for reflection of themselves in the stories they consume whether conscious or not.

[(Anonymous)]

It was probably the intention that she did love Phillip, and there would be a love triangle about that.

No "probably" about it. See this link from 2012. http://www.tvguide.com/news/once-upon-time-emma-snow-1054020.aspx

When Phillip says "I love you," it was ambiguous as to whether he was speaking to Mulan or Aurora.
Horowitz: That was purposefully ambiguous. If you ask Mulan and you ask Aurora, you might get different answers.
Kitsis: There's definitely a story there, but it looked to me as if he was saying it to both of them.

That's not your typical love triangle!
Kitsis: I mean, it's your classic case of two women loving a man who was sucked into a Wraith! [Laughs] What I love most about it is it's really not a love triangle. It started with Mulan on a quest to help Phillip wake up his true love, so she walked into it already saying, "I love this man; I want him to be happy." That's why she says in the premiere, "Love is a sacrifice of your own happiness."

[(Anonymous)]

Or...because...Aurora is already in a committed, loving relationship?

This is my problem with it. Breaking up someone else's relationship for your own happiness isn't ok, and unless they kill Philip off (and that seems rather repetitive at this point), neither Mulan or Aurora are going to come off looking good here.

[(Anonymous)]

DA -- I don't get this attitude. So far, we've got Philip giving a really ambiguous "I love you" to, according to the writers, possibly both women. So Philip loves them both. And Aurora tells Mulan "I know love when I see it," because she can see that Mulan had feelings for Philip. And Philip's kiss woke Aurora, so Aurora loves Philip. And Mulan's in love with Aurora. All we'd need for a perfect OT3 is Aurora to love Mulan back. As I've said before, I want the them to be an awesome threesome, raising Aurora's baby together and having all the adventures and all the sex.

[(Anonymous)]

People can ship them as a threesome all they want, but the show itself is not going to make a threesome canon. In order to make Mulan/Aurora canon, one of two things has to happen. Either Phillip has to die, or Aurora has to walk away from her canon "true love" Phillip and choose Mulan, and that would undermine one of the basic premises of the entire show.

[(Anonymous)]

But it's already confirmed someone can have more that one true love.
I don't think the show will go into the implications that could have if someone meets more than one of their true love without the other(s) being dead, but if something happened to Phillp, and Mulan and Aurora got togheter that won't really undermine any basic premise.

[(Anonymous)]

I think the show is working off the premise that you can only have one true love at a time. If your true love dies, you can find another one, which is I think what's going on with Robin/Regina (which I hate for lots of reasons that aren't relevant here). So yes, if Phillip dies, Aurora can find true love again with Mulan. And if they have to do Aurora/Mulan, then I'd rather they do that than the alternatives, but I'd rather they didn't do Aurora/Mulan at all, and instead have Mulan find her true love with another woman.

[(Anonymous)]

But Philip was dead. That was when Mulan started to develop feelings for Aurora (and presumably, Aurora could have started to develop feelings for Mulan). Then he came back some sort of way and yes, it IS important to know how.

I just don't see why people are convinced that Philip and Aurora had some "committed, loving relationship" when we've NEVER seen any of that onscreen. Things are not always as they seem and just because they're supposedly happy doesn't mean they really are. Meanwhile, we have an entire season's worth of Mulan/Aurora scenes that people are willing to ignore, why? Because Philip's a guy?

People can ship them as a threesome all they want, but the show itself is not going to make a threesome canon.
I'm not sure which anon wrote this, but a few weeks ago, I'm pretty sure people would say the show would never make Mulan/Aurora canon, either. And they've gone a hell of a lot further in doing so than I would ever expect them to.

[(Anonymous)]

Phillip woke Aurora from the spell, the same one Snow was under, with true love's kiss. Like it or not, that's canon. Whether we like it or not, whether we've seen it or not, in the world of OUAT, true love is a real powerful thing and Phillip and Aurora have it. Otherwise he wouldn't have been able to wake her. It would be changing the rules of the show regarding the whole "true love" conceit to say that Phillip and Aurora could fall out of love with each other, or fall In love with other people while both are still living. Why would people assume they don't have a committed loving relationship (and I personally read it that they're married) just because we haven't seen it? We haven't seen much of Cinderella and Thomas either, but I'm not seeing anyone suggesting they're on the brink of breaking up. Yes, in real life things change and feelings change and people change. But this is not real life and one of the central conceits of OUAT from the beginning has been that true love doesn't change or go away. I don't see any reason why it should be different for Phillip and Aurora just because the writers suddenly decided to throw the Sleeping Warrior shippers a bone.

Also, really? Aurora was positively glowing in that scene with Mulan. She couldn't wait to share her news about the baby. Did that look like a woman who was in an unhappy relationship?

And regarding a threesome, name me one other show on US network TV that has shown a threesome as more than a kinky onetime hookup, or as a weird case in a crime drama. Actually, I'd be surprised if you could name one on cable. Gay/lesbian relationships on TV may be rare, but they do exist. Threesomes don't. At all. I doubt OUAT is going to be the first.

da

[(Anonymous)]

It would be changing the rules of the show regarding the whole "true love" conceit to say that Phillip and Aurora could fall out of love with each other, or fall In love with other people while both are still living.

Except it wouldn't be. Way back in Season One, Emma kissing Graham broke the dark curse's effects on him, and Neal, who she's also supposed to love, was very much still alive. You can argue whether or not the writers intended for this to be the case all you want, it still happened in canon. So clearly it's possible to love someone enough to break a curse while also loving someone else.

There's also the fact that multiple kinds of true love are explicitly canon. No one outside of a very small fringe would say that Emma loves her son romantically, but her kiss was still able to break the sleeping curse. So that's at least one kind of platonic love, and I'd be surprised if we didn't see more.

Really, the definition of true love in the show seems to be less about having one true love, and more about truly (as in genuinely) loving someone.

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

Eh. Yes there are kinds of true love that are platonic, but if Phillip and Aurora are having a baby, theirs clearly isn't.

The Emma thing is a little less clear, I agree. I don't know if the writers intend for Neal to be Emma's true love or not. So that makes that situation murky. And did Emma's kiss break the spell for Graham because it was true love, or because she is the savior? Because Snow and Charming have true love, but their kisses didn't break the spell. And I think the show has shown that you can be in love without it being True Love. Emma being special by being the child of True Love insinuates that actual True Love is pretty rare. And like it or not, Phillip and Aurora being in True Love is canon. Which is why I still think killing Phillip is the only way to get Mulan and Aurora together without violating the show's own internal logic.

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

I never said Philip and Aurora are platonic, I said that platonic love is considered true love, which pretty much shoots down the whole one true love thing - you can have true love for multiple people of multiple sorts, so it stands to reason that it's possible, if not necessarily common, to be able to have true love of the same sort for more than one person simultaneously.

As for Snow and Charming, Snow's memory loss interfered with their true love in that one flashback, and we see the same thing with Lacey and Gold later, so it's down in canon that magical personality alteration can have an effect on true love - the people they are at that moment have to be truly in love, it doesn't carry over from their "real" selves.

I'd imagine being the product of true love is rare because in that world, marrying out of love is rare. Arranged marriage seems to be pretty common, as does marrying because it's the done thing - it brings security and heirs. There's also likely more at work there than just Emma being the product of true love, too, though that's neither going to be proved nor disproved unless we see another true love kid demonstrate or fail to have similar properties (Aurora and Phillip's baby, or Henry, since they do seem to be going that route with Emma and Neal).

I do agree that they probably won't put Mulan and Aurora together without killing Phillip off, since they will almost certainly not do a triad, and there's no other way to get them together without having someone come off badly. I just think true love isn't that immutable within the rules of the show.

[(Anonymous)]

Also, to add to my comments above - 1) Phillip wasn't actually dead. He was taken by the Wraith. The comments from the TV Guide article linked above indicate they always had a plan to bring him back. And 2) I think people are assuming that the writers were deliberately planning and hinting at Aurora/Mulan during that time when they were traveling together, and I personally don't believe that. I don't think they had any idea of that then - from what they've said, they were working from the angle of two women being in love with the same man, not being in love with each other. As someone else said below, I doubt it came up until they were working on S3 and just thought, sure, why not.

[(Anonymous)]

if something happened to Phillp, and Mulan and Aurora got togheter that won't really undermine any basic premise.

No I wasn't saying it would. I meant that if Aurora leaves Phillip, her "true love", to be with Mulan, that would undermine the whole "true love" concept which is one of the basic premises of the show.

[(Anonymous)]

Gimme a happy threesome.

[(Anonymous)]

But the weird part was Phillip was dead and then they brought him back just before the Mulan/Aurora set up. It's reading like he was purposely brought back just be an obstacle between them and stop it from happening.

[(Anonymous)]

Phillip wasn't dead - he was taken by the Wraith. They always intended for them to find a way to bring him back. And it might even have happened on screen if the writers hadn't gotten distracted by getting the rights to Neverland and basically dumped Aurora and Mulan for the second half of the season to focus on Cora and Hook. And I seriously doubt they had any idea of Mulan being in love with Aurora until starting to work on S3, and Phillip was already alive at the end of S2 (that scene on the beach where they find Neal).