fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2505 ]

[ SECRET POST #2505 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2505 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 061 secrets from Secret Submission Post #358.
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Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
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I sort of agree, because they are usually so... precious about it? I'm cool with people doing whatever with characters if it makes them feel included and happy, seriously more power to you. I truly mean that. If there's a character who I could viably interpret as genderqueer I am all over it. But don't pretend. Don't pretend it's a valid interpretation of canon (it rarely is), don't pretend you are totally thinking outside the box by making a (example) masculine female character into a transman, and REALLY don't pretend you are totally changing the world with your little blog on Tumblr. Until you make and distribute a story with the characters you want, all you're really doing is promoting the media you claim to be flawed with your fanwork so good job I guess?

But hey, Tumblr is self-congratulatory for no apparent reason, news at 11.

PS. Stop being so surprised when Japan doesn't have trans characters in their stuff. They're not going to get with the program for a while. If it were up to me it wouldn't be this way, but hey, what is my American ass supposed to do. The manufactured indignation is getting super old. Japan doesn't have a liberal American view on gender. Shocking. Crazy.

(This should go without saying, but I'm not actually defending Japan.)

The funny part is there are actually a number of legit well written trans characters in anime/manga. Mostly transwomen, but still.

Have any good ones to share? I'm (hopefully) doing an independent study on trans characters in manga. c:

I've heard Wandering Son, an anime about trans teenagers, is good. It's a manga as well, I believe.

Ooh, yes, I know that one! I actually got to talk to the translator when I was in Japan. It was super cool. c:

It's a comedy but it has some fairly insightful serious moments: Family Compo (F.Compo for short)

Ice Revolution has a transwoman side character who I recall being handled fairly well.

Re: Wandering Son, were you referring to Matt Thorn and his manga translation (no idea if the anime's been translated yet...)? I love his attitude towards his work!

I can't think of any other series that has trans characters as the main characters, but if one-shots or secondary characters are useful:

"Ayumi and Aika" (chap. 6-7) in Mermaid Line, by Kindaichi Renjuurou. MtF-F couple.

"Dreams Unfold at Night" (chap. 7) in Yes It's Me, Yamashita Tomoko. MtF side character.

Occasional chapters in Honey and Honey, Sachiko Takeuchi. Autobiographical comic; author's FtM friends are introduced in volume 1, chapter 10 and show up throughout.

Double House, by Haruno Nanae, possibly: one of the main characters is perhaps closer to genderfluid, but the 3rd chapter has a secondary character who seems to be MtF. But I'm basing interpretations off the English scanlation, and don't know if there is more or less ambiguity in how they view themselves in the original dialogue (this is true for everything else, too, but DH is more ambiguous and dialogue-heavy in general).

Yeah, Matt Thorn! Really chill guy. C: (I think the anime does have official subs, but I don't know who did them; I'm more a fan of the manga, myself. @_@)

Thanks to you and everyone else for your suggestions! There's several things in here that I definitely need to check out, so. Thanks, everyone. You are cool. ♥

Ayrt

Ack, I'm hitting my forehead at forgetting a couple bigger works!

Bokura no Hentai, Fumiko Fumi. Ongoing manga series with a MtF main character.

Claudine...!, Ryouko Ikeda, where the title's punctuation is the first indicator of how (awesomely, imo) '70s shoujo drama this is. FtM main character.

Finally (this time), possibly Battle Angel Alita: Last Order, Yukito Kishiro. Many of the characters are mobile AIs with brain chips copied from a human brain; several are copies of main character and cyborg Alita. One such AI, named Sechs, eventually switches to a male body, while Alita and the other AIs based off her always switch to female bodies whenever they change theirs. Sechs is introduced in vol. 1 chap. 4 ("Thinking of You") of Last Order.

I don't know if I can recommend Paradise Kiss in good faith since it annoyed me at times, but Isabella is a great trans character.

I believe it, but they are basically outliers.

Also by throwing a fit about "ruined" trans story lines people usually erase the genderqueer characters they so desperately crave, but transgender people are at the gold in the Sexuality portion of the Oppression Olympics so you get more points with your SJ friends if you prioritize them instead.

There is this one character, from a game that shall not be named, where if you mention their gender in the fandom, it's like setting a bomb off. It gets annoying real fast because it's always the same exact arguments that never lead anywhere. The "it's like a trans coming out story, so it must mean *character* is really trans!" argument comes up A LOT.

Naoto or Chihiro?

DA
My first thought was Naoto, haha.

Re: So this happened

(Anonymous) - 2013-11-12 01:55 (UTC) - Expand

Re: So this happened

(Anonymous) - 2013-11-12 03:30 (UTC) - Expand

AYRT

(Anonymous) - 2013-11-12 04:12 (UTC) - Expand

I agreed with you up until the PS. And you're not the first person I've seen single out Japan for this. I guess it's because so much of fandom is anime/manga? But I don't get why people talk about it like lack of acknowledging trans* identities is such a uniquely Japanese thing? Because outside of a little bit of fandom, most of the West doesn't know that sex and gender aren't the same thing either. I live in a liberal area of the USA and I didn't really know anything about it until a couple years ago.

(And needless to say, I'm not defending Japan either. Or other countries, or anyone.)

There's a lot of anime or manga that involves characters crossdressing and when it's revealed it turns out that they are actually happy as their birth sex and were crossdressing for other reasons. A lot of people insist they must be trans in spite of them saying flat out that they're not, and then blame Japan for being transphobic.

I really do wish more people would realize that crossdressing =/= trans.

THIS. Hell, I'm friends with a few drag queens who all very firmly identify as male, they just like to crossdress.

Yeah, one of my main fandoms has a character exactly like that. I know it's a popular trope in anime, but it being less common in Western media isn't an indication that Japan is that much less understanding of trans identities than other countries. Like I said, outside of a small portion of fandom, most Westerners view the trope in anime and manga exactly as Japanese do: the possibility that the character is trans and the narrative is transphobic never crosses their minds.

It's not uniquely Japanese at all. It's just the over-the-top surprise that happens when an anime turns out to be 100% cis people. Like yeah, no shit. I think Japan has more cross-dressing and stuff like that in their stories on average because of having a different idea of machismo and a different history with it, so that gets peoples hopes up but inevitably doesn't deliver because Japan is a country steeped in gender roles and sexism. MORE SO THAN THE US. I'm not against the disappointment, I'm against the surprise. It's willfully ignorant at a certain point and then you get to throw a big theatrical fit on you blog and have people flock to you telling you how they were totally betrayed too ;----;

In America you have a better chance, because most writers at least have had some education in a liberal environment and maybe picked something up? Fingers crossed? Your disappointment is a lot more grounded because you can at least honestly say "Hey. This show should know better. We deserve better."

But then there seems to be a large chunk of the anime/manga fandom that genuinely believe Japan cares about western fans and their support at all (PFFTTHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA) so this lack of distinguishing between the two is understandable.

Edited 2013-11-12 01:36 (UTC)

I've lived in Japan and I studied gender roles and stereotypes in Japan (with an emphasis on LGBTQ) in my final year of uni, and I can agree with this 100%. I used to watch Arashi's variety shows (C/D/G no Arashi and Arashi no Shukudai-kun in particular), and the D and G no Arashi (Document Press Arashi and ... I can't remember what the G stood for, but the premise was — essentially, if I remember correctly — supporting groups of people who were either marginalised, a minority, or involved in something that had a very small following/public awareness). They had a series of "new half" specials (new half being the term for trans* individuals, generally MtF as FtM seems to be practically unheard of in comparison) where they supported these various women with something in their lives — generally helping them ~find the courage~ to ask a cis man out on a date, by aiding them in attempting to find out whether or not the cis guy would even be accepting of them.

Heartwarmingly, it worked out on several occasions, and there was an episode where I think the ... first? couple they helped out re-appeared in the show to help out and to talk about their relationship and ...I don't recall them talking about the difficulties, but I know they were asked (essentially) "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE SEX??"

In retrospect, it was actually quite ... progressive, given Japan's general attitude towards trans* individuals and issues in that it treated them as real people with real concerns. Whilst Japan does have a number of MtF celebrities and TV stars (Haruna Ai) and even an out politician (Aya Kamikawa), the general perception is that it's fine and great as long as it's restricted to entertainment and comedy, which is pretty par the course for modern Japan and its attitudes towards gender and sexuality that falls outside of the binary or whatever's considered "normal". I've noticed (or at least, I did back when I dabbled in fandom more) that this was something that a lot of western fans missed. Like, even with manga, from what I recall*, a lot of the crossdressing characters are played for laugh and that in and of itself says a lot about how Japan at large views it.

*feel free to correct me, it has been many a moon and I was never a big reader of manga!

tl;dr BLAH BLAH BLAH JAPAN IS NOT THE PERFECT HEAVENLY HAVEN WHERE EVERYONE IS ACCEPTED REGARDLESS OF RACE AND GENDER good god I hate how people actually think that it's a thing.

Edited 2013-11-12 09:49 (UTC)

To add onto crossdressing being played for laughs, it also seems to me that trans* characters, especially trans girls and trans women, are heavily fetishized.

Yeah, I'm surprised at how many people think Japan is some super awesome progressive liberal place. It's actually somewhat racist and everything you said.

It boggles the mind. Japan is pretty consevative.

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