[ SECRET POST #2505 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2505 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 061 secrets from Secret Submission Post #358.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 16 - one persistent repeat spammer (I have tried to keep your non-repeats, however!) ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[forgottenjester]

It doesn't help that a lot of shows with female leads are poorly written or about things I don't care about.

At least guys get enough lead roles so that they are more likely to be on shows that have good writing and a premise I like. That's honestly where the problem lies. The men don't have to leave or be gender swapped. I just need more opportunities to see women in shows I like that aren't shit.

[(Anonymous)]

THIS.

It's the fact that there's so few shows with female leads in the first place, the proportion of shit to quality is much higher.

[forgottenjester]

Yeah, and even if I know the writing isn't horrible if I don't like the premise I'm still not going to watch it. Like Gilmore Girls. That was a well-ish written show. It won awards didn't it? But I didn't like it because I'm not interested in small town life unless it includes something out of the norm or other-worldly.

[(Anonymous)]

I think with western shows in particular the premise thing is probably a big sticking point. A lot of TV execs still seem to work under the idea that women only want to see rom-coms and guys want to see action flicks, so lots of sci-fi/fantasy/action shows and movies have majority male leads, while female-led shows are probably more likely to be real-world based, love-triangle soapy things. Meanwhile most of the shows I can think of with really rabid fanbases usually have some kind of genre twist to them. Like the big namesmush of popularity, SuperWhoLock -- you've got Supernatural (which is, well, superntaural), Doctor Who (sci-fi) and Sherlock (mystery and bromance). And because fandoms for genre shows tend to be a bit more rabidly fannish than fans for regular dramas, of course the female-led shows get less love. Also explains why Xena is the only big female-led fandom OP can think of -- it's a campy action fantasy show. (Also why I think anime fandom seems to have more popular female fandoms, because you get more female-led shows that are more than just real-world romance/drama.)

[(Anonymous)]

"A lot of TV execs still seem to work under the idea that women only want to see rom-coms and guys want to see action flicks, so lots of sci-fi/fantasy/action shows and movies have majority male leads, while female-led shows are probably more likely to be real-world based, love-triangle soapy things."

This. I hate rom-coms. I consider myself very feminine in most ways, and I like romance in some contexts, but I do not want a bunch of shippy, soapy stuff in a sitcom, a detective/crime/thriller show, or a fantasy/sci-fi show. If I want romance and melodrama and love triangles, I will read a book or watch something like Downton Abbey.

Stuff that is specifically designed to appeal to a female demographic is guaranteed to turn me off, big-time.

[(Anonymous)]

this.

[cassandraoftroy]

Yeah, pretty much this. I enjoy romance just fine -- as a B-plot. I want the A-plot to involve dragons or spaceships or robots or something.

[(Anonymous)]

A lot of TV execs still seem to work under the idea that women only want to see rom-coms and guys want to see action flicks, so lots of sci-fi/fantasy/action shows and movies have majority male leads, while female-led shows are probably more likely to be real-world based, love-triangle soapy thing


Thhhiiiisss these are good points. People go "oh there's plenty of shows like that" then they'll list old ones (Xena, Buffy) then a bunch of ones that I'm sure are great but I'm not interested in that kind of flick.



and I see you on superwholockhannibalwhateverelse - they're all well known popular shows...that pretty much every character is a man. I don't watch them, but I sure wish I could have some more shows with a female cast in similar genres.

[(Anonymous)]

Hannibal, at least...while led by men, has several female characters that seem to get a lot of love from fandom.

Freddie Lounds actually turns out to have some redeeming qualities (I kind of hate her, in the..she's a sleazy journalist sense, but she's been through other things that would make me break down crying like a baby so...)

Alana Bloom is Will's love interest but her presence on the show, while it acknowledges their attraction and there is some kissing, doesn't really center around "Alana is Will's love interest". She's a character in her own right.

Beverly Katz is on the all-male team of folks investigating these murders and she holds her own. There is in fact an episode where she isn't there (jury duty) and it's basically implied she's the one who makes sure Shit Gets Done and they need her back asap. (okay, not really implied, I think Jack yells something to that effect)

Abigail Hobbs...it's her story arc that basically drives much of the first season.

They don't have as many appearances but Dr. Du Maurier (Hannibal's therapist, played by Gillian Anderson) manages to show she can keep up with Hannibal and he obviously respects her which is not something you see out of him regarding many other characters on the show and Bella Crawford (Jack's wife, played by Gina Torres)...just packs a punch whenever she's on the screen. (a metaphorical punch) The first time we see her, she's on screen for like...all of fifteen seconds, and even that is enough to make you go, "holy crap." Or at least it did for me.

[forgottenjester]

Everything you've just said is something I can agree with. I'm really not interested in romcoms or anything like that so I feel like the only thing available to me have male leads.

[(Anonymous)]

It's not just TV though - I always hate it when a good action(or sci-fi) movie only has a female character to be the love interest. Because we absolutely need a love story so the girls who accompany their boyfriends to that movie don't get bored, right?

Really, if that's the only reason to stick in a female character, I'd rather have no female character at all.

[(Anonymous)]

Completely agree. When I see a show has a female lead or main characters I assume it's going to center around romance or family because the odds have been good that's what it's going to be about and if I'm not interested in those things at the moment I give it a pass. There are exceptions and I think that's starting to change, but slowly. Women who aren't defined in some significant way as predominantly someone's wife or girlfriend or mother (or desperately wanting to be one of those things) are still in short supply & it's irritating.

[forgottenjester]

You hit the nail on the head. If the lead is female normally it's all about romance and not some epic cool hero plot or something. Which, let's be honest, is one of the things I'm most interested in. So I'm not left with much option but men when I pick my poison.

[dragonimp]

Came here to say this. We get SO MANY MORE male-lead shows that the odds of finding a good one are much higher.

[forgottenjester]

Pretty much. It's just a numbers game.

[(Anonymous)]

I do think this accounts for a fair share of the phenomena, but how do you explain shows like Merlin becoming so fandom-big? That show is cualifiable as guilty pleasure at best.

So yeah, it is true that since white male leads are the majority, statistically wise there will be more good stuff (Strugeon's Law and all). But I think it's also true that the white dick is attractive enough to make fandom regardless of how good the material is.

[forgottenjester]

Those shows? I never saw Merlin but I can say I've seen Teen Wolf and I know that is absolutely dreadful. I watch it primarily because it is bad though. As in, I watch it to make fun of it. So I'm not sure why people who actually like it are drawn to it.

I mean, yeah, my idea can't stand for every case but it doesn't and shouldn't have to. It's just a general trend that is actually linked with your problem but in a roundabout way. People are attracted to a certain thing and this get shows views even when they're bad. Now, what shapes and forms people's expectations? It would be the shows they watch. So the thing they consume shapes their views but at the same time their views dictate what goes on the air to a degree. So it's a circular problem. So since there aren't a lot of women to choose from who I would like to see that means that for some people they don't expect women there. They expect men. So men are going to get more attention even when there is a woman option.

At least, this is how I see it. But who knows, maybe I'm talking out my ass and I have this all wrong.