[ SECRET POST #2512 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2512 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 062 secrets from Secret Submission Post #359.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fauxkaren]

It's also amusing to me when people complain about Rose "keep coming back" because like. Donna was just a one-off who came back for her own series and then again she returned to the show in End of Time. And Martha came back twice on Doctor Who in series 4 after she'd left the Tardis. AND she also had a three episode arc on Torchwood. (and had the cameo in End of Time)

Rose left in series 2. Came back at the end of series 4 (+cameo in EoT). And now is coming back for the 50th.

Jack GOT HIS OWN SHOW and then after that returned to the mothership for two appearances and also the EoT cameo.

But people seem to really harp on Rose's returns while ignoring every one else.

[philstar22]

I think for some of us the issue is less "she kept coming back" and more "she was the focus even when it wasn't her turn". Martha's season was a whole lot about her. Donna's season was a lot about Rose returning even before she came back (and also about Martha coming back again).

That being said, that says nothing about Rose herself or her character. I just think she was the first companion RTD wrote, and she had special meaning for him. Rose is awesome, its just that some of the stuff around her wasn't always so much.

And I actually do think Jack was almost as special to him. Donna, not so much. Yes, she was a one-off who came back, but half her episodes included another companion and there were random put downs that made no sense (Jack not hugging her for example). That was less about her not being Rose, though, and more about the New Who bias against older companions. Which is just as much Moffatt's issue, if not more so.

[sarillia]

I agree with this. I like Rose but I love all the companions and I wish she hadn't overshadowed some of the others as much as she did.

[fauxkaren]

Different strokes for different folks, but I liked that Rose wasn't forgotten the second she left the screen. And idk. Given her relationship with Ten, it made sense to me that his story in series 3 would be about mourning Rose.

And tbh, the fact that the Doctor WAS hung up on Rose allowed for Martha's story to be a really cool and empowering story about finding worth in herself instead of looking for validation from an outside source (in this case, the Doctor's approval).

ETA: and with Donna, well, I don't think it was built into the story that Rose overshadowed her. Rose made some very brief cameo appearances in series 4 leading up to her return and it wasn't made a huge deal of on the show. FANDOM might have been different. But it wasn't the writing.

[philstar22]

I guess maybe it comes down to whether you bought the Doctor/Rose thing. I mostly wanted Rose being awesome without the romance angle, and I found it hard to believe that a 900 year old Doctor was really mooning over one human companion in a way he hadn't for any other. It felt out of character to me personally because what the Doctor does is hang around with a companion for a while and then when that relationship ends he moves on fairly quickly.

And I guess I like to enjoy the companions for who they are while they are on. That being said, I did like Martha's storyline about loving the Doctor and realizing he'd never love her back and moving on. I found it much more annoying in Series 4 when it felt like RTD just didn't really want to focus on Donna even if he had made her the companion for the series.

[(Anonymous)]

+1 this is very nicely put.

[fauxkaren]

I don't think that Rose being awesome is mutually exclusive to her being involved in a romantic plot. And idk. I don't think that the Doctor seems himself as being better than humans because he's a Time Lord. He's always been drawn to humans. I find the fact that he'd fall in love with Rose to be very believable, given that she was brave, clever, and compassionate.

[philstar22]

Oh, the Doctor doesn't see himself as better. He just has mortality issues. He can't deal with death. We see that with Sarah Jane and him not being able to go back to her. He makes himself move on because he can't handle the idea that his companions are mortal and will die long before he does. Same reason he mostly doesn't do family when it comes to his companion (Nine and Ten's issues with Rose's family for example).

I find it believable that he had feelings for her. She did save him, after all, in a lot of ways. I just don't find it believable that it is any different from feelings he may have had for other companions in the past or future. I just don't buy the relationship with Rose being different than other relationships he had with companions.

I don't think her being in a romantic plot is mutually exclusive with her being awesome. They could absolutely both be awesome. I just don't personally like the romantic side. Just personal preference. That also doesn't mean I dislike Rose, though, and I get really frustrated with a lot of the Rose bashing from anti-shippers because it is actually possible to like a character (or even recognize good qualities in characters you don't like) even if you don't like a particular relationship they are involved in.

[(Anonymous)]

Reboot!Doctor "can't deal with death" you mean. In the Classic series, it really was nbd. Unless you were Crispy!Master....

[(Anonymous)]

I find you not buying it very odd. It seemed pretty believable in the text.

[philstar22]

It didn't seem consistent with his character to me. The show was trying to have it both ways.

I would have been able to buy it without all the other stuff, but the fact is that he was a 900 year old TIme Lord who had countless companions. I could buy that he had feelings for all of them in different ways, but the idea that Rose was somehow unique and he loved her more than any other was unbelievable given the whole of canon. And yet the same season gave us his mortality issues and his inability to deal with families.

[(Anonymous)]

So... your objection is that you don't think he could have felt romantic love toward a human? Idk. I think that sometimes those things just happen.

You don't usually actually plan how you are going to feel towards someone or plan in advance who you are going to fall for. It also isn't easy to avoid having feelings when you go through emotional stuff with someone (the whole being fresh out of Time War etc.) so I don't see it at all unbelievable.

as for Rose being unique... uh, she wasn't.

People don't have to be super!speshul for you to fall in love with them (though you often see them through rose-tinted glassess at first no pun intended. The Doctor cared for all his companions, it's not away from anyone else that he had romantic feelings for Rose.

And the mortality issues and inability to deal with families... I got the impression they were exactly because he didn't particularly want or plan those feelings.

[philstar22]

I meant special in the sense of his feelings for her being any different from the feelings for any other companion. I don't find it impossible that he had feelings for a human companion. I think he had some sort of feelings for most if not all of them (at least the women ones). But love in the sense of "true love" that meant that he mourned for her in a way he never did for any other companion, I don't believe. Its the "super special relationship unlike any other Doctor/Companion relationship" that the show was pushing that I didn't believe.

[(Anonymous)]

He loved Rose romantically, other companions he loved platonically. I'm not seeing the problem here. And "true love"? Why the quotations, love tends to be true when you love someone, you're hardly going to fake it. (and it was never in canon stated to be anything but normal love)

[(Anonymous)]

I just don't buy the relationship with Rose being different than other relationships he had with companions.

He loved her romantically while his love for his other companions was platonic. That's canon and... I don't see anything wrong with that. There are different kinds of love.

[sarillia]

And tbh, the fact that the Doctor WAS hung up on Rose allowed for Martha's story to be a really cool and empowering story about finding worth in herself instead of looking for validation from an outside source (in this case, the Doctor's approval).

This is an interesting point.

[(Anonymous)]

And tbh, the fact that the Doctor WAS hung up on Rose allowed for Martha's story to be a really cool and empowering story about finding worth in herself instead of looking for validation from an outside source (in this case, the Doctor's approval).

Another person of color saddled with a storyline that involved them being made to feel inferior to a white person. So cool.

[fauxkaren]

And then overcoming that.

[(Anonymous)]

Getting to feel ~empowered~ by the realization that someone's jerking you around and you don't have to put up with it is a pretty shitty substitution for just being treated decently in the first place, sorry.

[(Anonymous)]

This, oh so fucking much. Ugh, I hate Ten's treatment of Martha. He could have moped over Rose and still treated Martha decently.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, I eyerolled at those moments because I found Rose's returns more annoying than anyone else's. It wasn't just about frequency or number of returns, it's that Rose is always worshipped as the One True Companion and that got old really fast.

[(Anonymous)]

DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER

I felt it erased all the brilliant companions that came before her; kinda saying they weren't as special. They are ALL special to the Doctor and he loves them all (maybe not Adric. Nobody likes Adric).

If we're including spin off companions, the Doctor had a much closer relationship with Fitz then he did with Rose.

[(Anonymous)]

Or with Jamie. Or Jo. Or Romana.

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed wholeheartedly. It was beyond annoying how the show and fans teeated her as if she was the only companion that mattered. He loves them all, damn it.